How come Sam didn't become Lord of Horn Hill? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern) Favourite questions and answers from the 1st quarter of 2019Why didn't Bilbo become a creature like Gollum?How come the chained dragons don't choke when they grow?How come the Unsullied are overwhelmed so easily?How could Jor El become heretic if he didn't have free will?How come he didn't use the most obvious solution to “grasp” time - dates?How did Riddick kill Lord Marshal Zhylaw?How do the “Baby White Walkers” become old (bearded) White Walkers?How come Moriarty didn't recognize Sherlock Holmes?Why didn't Randyll Tarly avenge the theft of the family sword?How come Marcus didn't know this about himself
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How come Sam didn't become Lord of Horn Hill?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
Favourite questions and answers from the 1st quarter of 2019Why didn't Bilbo become a creature like Gollum?How come the chained dragons don't choke when they grow?How come the Unsullied are overwhelmed so easily?How could Jor El become heretic if he didn't have free will?How come he didn't use the most obvious solution to “grasp” time - dates?How did Riddick kill Lord Marshal Zhylaw?How do the “Baby White Walkers” become old (bearded) White Walkers?How come Moriarty didn't recognize Sherlock Holmes?Why didn't Randyll Tarly avenge the theft of the family sword?How come Marcus didn't know this about himself
After both his father and brother (who was the heir) executed in Season 7, how come that Samwell Tarly didn't become the new head of the House, i.e. Lord of Horn Hill?
I would expect the remaining house leaders to have sent Sam a message letting him know of what happened and asking him to come back home to rule the house.
Why didn't it happen, and he wasn't even notified?
plot-explanation game-of-thrones
asked Apr 16 at 14:08
Shadow WizardShadow Wizard
2,18512147
add a comment |
After both his father and brother (who was the heir) executed in Season 7, how come that Samwell Tarly didn't become the new head of the House, i.e. Lord of Horn Hill?
I would expect the remaining house leaders to have sent Sam a message letting him know of what happened and asking him to come back home to rule the house.
Why didn't it happen, and he wasn't even notified?
plot-explanation game-of-thrones
asked Apr 16 at 14:08
Shadow WizardShadow Wizard
2,18512147
add a comment |
After both his father and brother (who was the heir) executed in Season 7, how come that Samwell Tarly didn't become the new head of the House, i.e. Lord of Horn Hill?
I would expect the remaining house leaders to have sent Sam a message letting him know of what happened and asking him to come back home to rule the house.
Why didn't it happen, and he wasn't even notified?
plot-explanation game-of-thrones
asked Apr 16 at 14:08
Shadow WizardShadow Wizard
2,18512147
After both his father and brother (who was the heir) executed in Season 7, how come that Samwell Tarly didn't become the new head of the House, i.e. Lord of Horn Hill?
I would expect the remaining house leaders to have sent Sam a message letting him know of what happened and asking him to come back home to rule the house.
Why didn't it happen, and he wasn't even notified?
plot-explanation game-of-thrones
plot-explanation game-of-thrones
asked Apr 16 at 14:08
Shadow WizardShadow Wizard
2,18512147
asked Apr 16 at 14:08
Shadow WizardShadow Wizard
2,18512147
asked Apr 16 at 14:08
Shadow WizardShadow Wizard
2,18512147
asked Apr 16 at 14:08
Shadow WizardShadow Wizard
2,18512147
asked Apr 16 at 14:08
Shadow WizardShadow Wizard
2,18512147
2,18512147
add a comment |
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
Sam is a brother of the Night's Watch and has given up his right of succession as part of his oath.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.
As for why he wasn't told of their death's well the maester's at the Citadel chose not to tell him "just yet".
MAESTER 1: Is he the one whose father and brother were just burned alive?
MARWYN: I'm afraid so.
MAESTER 2: Horrible business.
MARWYN: I don't have the heart to tell him yet. He's a good lad.
Game of Thrones, Season 7 Episode 5, "Eastwatch"
answered Apr 16 at 14:15
TheLethalCarrotTheLethalCarrot
6,5282753
28
@ShadowWizard Whilst it is a grey area Jon is technically no longer a member of the Night's Watch after his death.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
10
@ShadowWizard If he didn't die, I doubt he would have left the Wall which would mean the Battle of the Bastards wouldn't have happened and all that follows. Who's to say what could have happened?
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:25
17
Jon considered his watch to have ended once he died, basically taking is vows really literally.
– JNat♦
Apr 16 at 14:34
7
@JNat Edd also takes it literally and quotes back at him "for this night and all the nights to come." As said it is a grey area with neither being truly correct or incorrect. It hasn't happened before so Jon just uses the loophole and hot legs it outta there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:36
10
@TheLethalCarrot The rules also aren't really binding, except to the extent that everyone else will enforce them. The North didn't care about Jon's oath to the Watch or his breaking it, for whatever reason, and so they were fine naming him the king. What other enforcement of the oath or conflict would there be?
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 16:24
|
show 8 more comments
Sam is in the Night's Watch.
Members renounce all titles and claims to lands, so he can't become a Lord.
answered Apr 16 at 14:14
FedericoFederico
668617
3
@ShadowWizard He is both a brother of the Night's Watch and a novice at the Citadel during his time there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
8
@ShadowWizard He was sent to become a maester for the Night's Watch so breaking the oath wouldn't make much sense. Also I doubt he would have survived all that time wearing the black and clearly being a brother of the Night's Watch without being executed for desertion.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:32
4
It's also unlikely that the rules allow for explicitly being broken. Sam renounced his claim, at which point it went to the next person in line (however that is determined at Horn Hill). Upon making his oath he formally removed himself from the succession forever, and breaking the oath doesn't change that. It could devolve into a whose-claim-is-better situation (a la Renly and Stannis), but "officially" the heir definitely is not, and cannot be, him.
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 15:00
3
Correction - NW members don't have to give up their names. So Samwell Tarly remains Samwell Tarly (Denys Mallister remains a Mallister, Jeor Mormont remains a Mormont, Benjen Stark remains a Stark). He however renounced all claims to his father's lands and titles when he took the vow just as other members did. Order of the Citadel however give up their names as well so Aemon Targaryen becomes just Aemon.
– Aegon
Apr 16 at 19:37
2
@Aegon thanks, fixing
– Federico
Apr 16 at 19:49
|
show 4 more comments
Because he has forsaken all claims to that title and any other title the moment he joined the Night's Watch.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. - Night's Watch Vows
Not to mention that those who join the Citadel to become Maesters also forsake claims to titles.
When an acolyte of noble birth takes his vows and dons his chain, he puts aside his House name. He swears sacred vows, promising to hold no lands or lordships, and to be celibate. - Maester Vows
answered Apr 16 at 14:19
VirusbombVirusbomb
1,8561615
4
Sam had not yet taken the oath to become a Maester so the second point isn't correct here. Acolytes and novices are free to leave as they please until they take the oath.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:21
add a comment |
He is in the Nights Watch. Remember? He was sent to the Citadel by the Lord Commander to become a Maester?
That's one reason for why he can't become a Lord (or hasn't become a lord yet) but that might not even be the case, the time is not at all right, he had also vowed to never be with a woman, but he broke that vow, I do not see why it will not be possible for him to break away totally from the Night's Watch vow after the Great War ends (if it does and the living wins.)
Spoilers Ahead
Most of the answers above talks about his vows, totally understandable but until now Sam didn't even know his father and brother are dead, neither did Daenerys have any idea that Lord Randyll Tarly had one more son who could be the Lord. What about the Night's Watch vows? Oh, the Wall has fallen, the ancient order of the Night's Watch may not even be relevant now so how does the vows will matter after the War ends? If Jon Snow after becoming the King wants he can name him the Lord to at least save one great house from extinction, just like I believe he will legitimize Gendry to save the House Baratheon.
answered 2 days ago
Deepak KamatDeepak Kamat
1,77071937
add a comment |
It is probably because of that scene with his father; when Sam was at home just before going to the citadel.
They were having a family dinner, and when Sam's father found out about Gilly being a wildling, the women left the table, and when they were alone, Randyll told Sam that Gilly and little Sam are welcome to stay there, Gilly will have to serve as a servant and he will raise his grandson, but Sam will no longer be welcome in Horn Hill and has to leave by first light. Sam then proceed to get Gilly and Heartsbane and go to the citadel.
So it is implied that Sam's father banished/disowned Sam, when he found out that his son is with a wildling.
answered Apr 16 at 14:25
NochiNochi
1454
1
His father did banish him, no doubt and I know that, but such thing should be nullified when the father and remaining heirs are dead. At least that's common sense for me. No?
– Shadow Wizard
Apr 16 at 14:27
2
Randyll had already pretty much banished Sam anyway by forcing him off to the Wall so that Dickon could inherit.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:28
1
This is all irrelevant because Sam had already given up his family rights when he joined the Night's Watch.
– only_pro
2 days ago
add a comment |
While his vow to the Night's watch provides some technicality and may have mattered if this happened a few years before current events, the main reason is because naming a successor is not a priority right now.
Daenerys and Jon do not own the lands around Horn Hill right now, the Lannisters do and will certainly not give them to Jon's best friend. Furthermore, Jon and Dany are in a quite pressing war for basic survival (vs the dead) and another war for supremacy (vs Cersei). They simply do not have the time to appoint lords over contested lands right now, that is for when they win.
At that point, it might be Horn Hill goes to another family. Though if Dany/Jon prevail and Sam survives there is also a good chance he gets the land, because why keep the Night's watch after its purpose has been fulfilled?
answered 2 days ago
KillianDSKillianDS
1,7741420
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Sam is a brother of the Night's Watch and has given up his right of succession as part of his oath.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.
As for why he wasn't told of their death's well the maester's at the Citadel chose not to tell him "just yet".
MAESTER 1: Is he the one whose father and brother were just burned alive?
MARWYN: I'm afraid so.
MAESTER 2: Horrible business.
MARWYN: I don't have the heart to tell him yet. He's a good lad.
Game of Thrones, Season 7 Episode 5, "Eastwatch"
answered Apr 16 at 14:15
TheLethalCarrotTheLethalCarrot
6,5282753
28
@ShadowWizard Whilst it is a grey area Jon is technically no longer a member of the Night's Watch after his death.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
10
@ShadowWizard If he didn't die, I doubt he would have left the Wall which would mean the Battle of the Bastards wouldn't have happened and all that follows. Who's to say what could have happened?
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:25
17
Jon considered his watch to have ended once he died, basically taking is vows really literally.
– JNat♦
Apr 16 at 14:34
7
@JNat Edd also takes it literally and quotes back at him "for this night and all the nights to come." As said it is a grey area with neither being truly correct or incorrect. It hasn't happened before so Jon just uses the loophole and hot legs it outta there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:36
10
@TheLethalCarrot The rules also aren't really binding, except to the extent that everyone else will enforce them. The North didn't care about Jon's oath to the Watch or his breaking it, for whatever reason, and so they were fine naming him the king. What other enforcement of the oath or conflict would there be?
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 16:24
|
show 8 more comments
Sam is a brother of the Night's Watch and has given up his right of succession as part of his oath.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.
As for why he wasn't told of their death's well the maester's at the Citadel chose not to tell him "just yet".
MAESTER 1: Is he the one whose father and brother were just burned alive?
MARWYN: I'm afraid so.
MAESTER 2: Horrible business.
MARWYN: I don't have the heart to tell him yet. He's a good lad.
Game of Thrones, Season 7 Episode 5, "Eastwatch"
answered Apr 16 at 14:15
TheLethalCarrotTheLethalCarrot
6,5282753
28
@ShadowWizard Whilst it is a grey area Jon is technically no longer a member of the Night's Watch after his death.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
10
@ShadowWizard If he didn't die, I doubt he would have left the Wall which would mean the Battle of the Bastards wouldn't have happened and all that follows. Who's to say what could have happened?
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:25
17
Jon considered his watch to have ended once he died, basically taking is vows really literally.
– JNat♦
Apr 16 at 14:34
7
@JNat Edd also takes it literally and quotes back at him "for this night and all the nights to come." As said it is a grey area with neither being truly correct or incorrect. It hasn't happened before so Jon just uses the loophole and hot legs it outta there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:36
10
@TheLethalCarrot The rules also aren't really binding, except to the extent that everyone else will enforce them. The North didn't care about Jon's oath to the Watch or his breaking it, for whatever reason, and so they were fine naming him the king. What other enforcement of the oath or conflict would there be?
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 16:24
|
show 8 more comments
Sam is a brother of the Night's Watch and has given up his right of succession as part of his oath.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.
As for why he wasn't told of their death's well the maester's at the Citadel chose not to tell him "just yet".
MAESTER 1: Is he the one whose father and brother were just burned alive?
MARWYN: I'm afraid so.
MAESTER 2: Horrible business.
MARWYN: I don't have the heart to tell him yet. He's a good lad.
Game of Thrones, Season 7 Episode 5, "Eastwatch"
answered Apr 16 at 14:15
TheLethalCarrotTheLethalCarrot
6,5282753
Sam is a brother of the Night's Watch and has given up his right of succession as part of his oath.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.
As for why he wasn't told of their death's well the maester's at the Citadel chose not to tell him "just yet".
MAESTER 1: Is he the one whose father and brother were just burned alive?
MARWYN: I'm afraid so.
MAESTER 2: Horrible business.
MARWYN: I don't have the heart to tell him yet. He's a good lad.
Game of Thrones, Season 7 Episode 5, "Eastwatch"
answered Apr 16 at 14:15
TheLethalCarrotTheLethalCarrot
6,5282753
edited Apr 16 at 14:49
answered Apr 16 at 14:15
TheLethalCarrotTheLethalCarrot
6,5282753
answered Apr 16 at 14:15
TheLethalCarrotTheLethalCarrot
6,5282753
answered Apr 16 at 14:15
TheLethalCarrotTheLethalCarrot
6,5282753
6,5282753
28
@ShadowWizard Whilst it is a grey area Jon is technically no longer a member of the Night's Watch after his death.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
10
@ShadowWizard If he didn't die, I doubt he would have left the Wall which would mean the Battle of the Bastards wouldn't have happened and all that follows. Who's to say what could have happened?
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:25
17
Jon considered his watch to have ended once he died, basically taking is vows really literally.
– JNat♦
Apr 16 at 14:34
7
@JNat Edd also takes it literally and quotes back at him "for this night and all the nights to come." As said it is a grey area with neither being truly correct or incorrect. It hasn't happened before so Jon just uses the loophole and hot legs it outta there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:36
10
@TheLethalCarrot The rules also aren't really binding, except to the extent that everyone else will enforce them. The North didn't care about Jon's oath to the Watch or his breaking it, for whatever reason, and so they were fine naming him the king. What other enforcement of the oath or conflict would there be?
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 16:24
|
show 8 more comments
28
@ShadowWizard Whilst it is a grey area Jon is technically no longer a member of the Night's Watch after his death.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
10
@ShadowWizard If he didn't die, I doubt he would have left the Wall which would mean the Battle of the Bastards wouldn't have happened and all that follows. Who's to say what could have happened?
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:25
17
Jon considered his watch to have ended once he died, basically taking is vows really literally.
– JNat♦
Apr 16 at 14:34
7
@JNat Edd also takes it literally and quotes back at him "for this night and all the nights to come." As said it is a grey area with neither being truly correct or incorrect. It hasn't happened before so Jon just uses the loophole and hot legs it outta there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:36
10
@TheLethalCarrot The rules also aren't really binding, except to the extent that everyone else will enforce them. The North didn't care about Jon's oath to the Watch or his breaking it, for whatever reason, and so they were fine naming him the king. What other enforcement of the oath or conflict would there be?
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 16:24
28
28
@ShadowWizard Whilst it is a grey area Jon is technically no longer a member of the Night's Watch after his death.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
@ShadowWizard Whilst it is a grey area Jon is technically no longer a member of the Night's Watch after his death.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
10
10
@ShadowWizard If he didn't die, I doubt he would have left the Wall which would mean the Battle of the Bastards wouldn't have happened and all that follows. Who's to say what could have happened?
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:25
@ShadowWizard If he didn't die, I doubt he would have left the Wall which would mean the Battle of the Bastards wouldn't have happened and all that follows. Who's to say what could have happened?
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:25
17
17
Jon considered his watch to have ended once he died, basically taking is vows really literally.
– JNat♦
Apr 16 at 14:34
Jon considered his watch to have ended once he died, basically taking is vows really literally.
– JNat♦
Apr 16 at 14:34
7
7
@JNat Edd also takes it literally and quotes back at him "for this night and all the nights to come." As said it is a grey area with neither being truly correct or incorrect. It hasn't happened before so Jon just uses the loophole and hot legs it outta there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:36
@JNat Edd also takes it literally and quotes back at him "for this night and all the nights to come." As said it is a grey area with neither being truly correct or incorrect. It hasn't happened before so Jon just uses the loophole and hot legs it outta there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:36
10
10
@TheLethalCarrot The rules also aren't really binding, except to the extent that everyone else will enforce them. The North didn't care about Jon's oath to the Watch or his breaking it, for whatever reason, and so they were fine naming him the king. What other enforcement of the oath or conflict would there be?
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 16:24
@TheLethalCarrot The rules also aren't really binding, except to the extent that everyone else will enforce them. The North didn't care about Jon's oath to the Watch or his breaking it, for whatever reason, and so they were fine naming him the king. What other enforcement of the oath or conflict would there be?
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 16:24
|
show 8 more comments
Sam is in the Night's Watch.
Members renounce all titles and claims to lands, so he can't become a Lord.
answered Apr 16 at 14:14
FedericoFederico
668617
3
@ShadowWizard He is both a brother of the Night's Watch and a novice at the Citadel during his time there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
8
@ShadowWizard He was sent to become a maester for the Night's Watch so breaking the oath wouldn't make much sense. Also I doubt he would have survived all that time wearing the black and clearly being a brother of the Night's Watch without being executed for desertion.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:32
4
It's also unlikely that the rules allow for explicitly being broken. Sam renounced his claim, at which point it went to the next person in line (however that is determined at Horn Hill). Upon making his oath he formally removed himself from the succession forever, and breaking the oath doesn't change that. It could devolve into a whose-claim-is-better situation (a la Renly and Stannis), but "officially" the heir definitely is not, and cannot be, him.
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 15:00
3
Correction - NW members don't have to give up their names. So Samwell Tarly remains Samwell Tarly (Denys Mallister remains a Mallister, Jeor Mormont remains a Mormont, Benjen Stark remains a Stark). He however renounced all claims to his father's lands and titles when he took the vow just as other members did. Order of the Citadel however give up their names as well so Aemon Targaryen becomes just Aemon.
– Aegon
Apr 16 at 19:37
2
@Aegon thanks, fixing
– Federico
Apr 16 at 19:49
|
show 4 more comments
Sam is in the Night's Watch.
Members renounce all titles and claims to lands, so he can't become a Lord.
answered Apr 16 at 14:14
FedericoFederico
668617
3
@ShadowWizard He is both a brother of the Night's Watch and a novice at the Citadel during his time there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
8
@ShadowWizard He was sent to become a maester for the Night's Watch so breaking the oath wouldn't make much sense. Also I doubt he would have survived all that time wearing the black and clearly being a brother of the Night's Watch without being executed for desertion.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:32
4
It's also unlikely that the rules allow for explicitly being broken. Sam renounced his claim, at which point it went to the next person in line (however that is determined at Horn Hill). Upon making his oath he formally removed himself from the succession forever, and breaking the oath doesn't change that. It could devolve into a whose-claim-is-better situation (a la Renly and Stannis), but "officially" the heir definitely is not, and cannot be, him.
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 15:00
3
Correction - NW members don't have to give up their names. So Samwell Tarly remains Samwell Tarly (Denys Mallister remains a Mallister, Jeor Mormont remains a Mormont, Benjen Stark remains a Stark). He however renounced all claims to his father's lands and titles when he took the vow just as other members did. Order of the Citadel however give up their names as well so Aemon Targaryen becomes just Aemon.
– Aegon
Apr 16 at 19:37
2
@Aegon thanks, fixing
– Federico
Apr 16 at 19:49
|
show 4 more comments
Sam is in the Night's Watch.
Members renounce all titles and claims to lands, so he can't become a Lord.
answered Apr 16 at 14:14
FedericoFederico
668617
Sam is in the Night's Watch.
Members renounce all titles and claims to lands, so he can't become a Lord.
answered Apr 16 at 14:14
FedericoFederico
668617
edited Apr 16 at 19:49
answered Apr 16 at 14:14
FedericoFederico
668617
answered Apr 16 at 14:14
FedericoFederico
668617
answered Apr 16 at 14:14
FedericoFederico
668617
668617
3
@ShadowWizard He is both a brother of the Night's Watch and a novice at the Citadel during his time there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
8
@ShadowWizard He was sent to become a maester for the Night's Watch so breaking the oath wouldn't make much sense. Also I doubt he would have survived all that time wearing the black and clearly being a brother of the Night's Watch without being executed for desertion.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:32
4
It's also unlikely that the rules allow for explicitly being broken. Sam renounced his claim, at which point it went to the next person in line (however that is determined at Horn Hill). Upon making his oath he formally removed himself from the succession forever, and breaking the oath doesn't change that. It could devolve into a whose-claim-is-better situation (a la Renly and Stannis), but "officially" the heir definitely is not, and cannot be, him.
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 15:00
3
Correction - NW members don't have to give up their names. So Samwell Tarly remains Samwell Tarly (Denys Mallister remains a Mallister, Jeor Mormont remains a Mormont, Benjen Stark remains a Stark). He however renounced all claims to his father's lands and titles when he took the vow just as other members did. Order of the Citadel however give up their names as well so Aemon Targaryen becomes just Aemon.
– Aegon
Apr 16 at 19:37
2
@Aegon thanks, fixing
– Federico
Apr 16 at 19:49
|
show 4 more comments
3
@ShadowWizard He is both a brother of the Night's Watch and a novice at the Citadel during his time there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
8
@ShadowWizard He was sent to become a maester for the Night's Watch so breaking the oath wouldn't make much sense. Also I doubt he would have survived all that time wearing the black and clearly being a brother of the Night's Watch without being executed for desertion.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:32
4
It's also unlikely that the rules allow for explicitly being broken. Sam renounced his claim, at which point it went to the next person in line (however that is determined at Horn Hill). Upon making his oath he formally removed himself from the succession forever, and breaking the oath doesn't change that. It could devolve into a whose-claim-is-better situation (a la Renly and Stannis), but "officially" the heir definitely is not, and cannot be, him.
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 15:00
3
Correction - NW members don't have to give up their names. So Samwell Tarly remains Samwell Tarly (Denys Mallister remains a Mallister, Jeor Mormont remains a Mormont, Benjen Stark remains a Stark). He however renounced all claims to his father's lands and titles when he took the vow just as other members did. Order of the Citadel however give up their names as well so Aemon Targaryen becomes just Aemon.
– Aegon
Apr 16 at 19:37
2
@Aegon thanks, fixing
– Federico
Apr 16 at 19:49
3
3
@ShadowWizard He is both a brother of the Night's Watch and a novice at the Citadel during his time there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
@ShadowWizard He is both a brother of the Night's Watch and a novice at the Citadel during his time there.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:22
8
8
@ShadowWizard He was sent to become a maester for the Night's Watch so breaking the oath wouldn't make much sense. Also I doubt he would have survived all that time wearing the black and clearly being a brother of the Night's Watch without being executed for desertion.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:32
@ShadowWizard He was sent to become a maester for the Night's Watch so breaking the oath wouldn't make much sense. Also I doubt he would have survived all that time wearing the black and clearly being a brother of the Night's Watch without being executed for desertion.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:32
4
4
It's also unlikely that the rules allow for explicitly being broken. Sam renounced his claim, at which point it went to the next person in line (however that is determined at Horn Hill). Upon making his oath he formally removed himself from the succession forever, and breaking the oath doesn't change that. It could devolve into a whose-claim-is-better situation (a la Renly and Stannis), but "officially" the heir definitely is not, and cannot be, him.
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 15:00
It's also unlikely that the rules allow for explicitly being broken. Sam renounced his claim, at which point it went to the next person in line (however that is determined at Horn Hill). Upon making his oath he formally removed himself from the succession forever, and breaking the oath doesn't change that. It could devolve into a whose-claim-is-better situation (a la Renly and Stannis), but "officially" the heir definitely is not, and cannot be, him.
– Upper_Case
Apr 16 at 15:00
3
3
Correction - NW members don't have to give up their names. So Samwell Tarly remains Samwell Tarly (Denys Mallister remains a Mallister, Jeor Mormont remains a Mormont, Benjen Stark remains a Stark). He however renounced all claims to his father's lands and titles when he took the vow just as other members did. Order of the Citadel however give up their names as well so Aemon Targaryen becomes just Aemon.
– Aegon
Apr 16 at 19:37
Correction - NW members don't have to give up their names. So Samwell Tarly remains Samwell Tarly (Denys Mallister remains a Mallister, Jeor Mormont remains a Mormont, Benjen Stark remains a Stark). He however renounced all claims to his father's lands and titles when he took the vow just as other members did. Order of the Citadel however give up their names as well so Aemon Targaryen becomes just Aemon.
– Aegon
Apr 16 at 19:37
2
2
@Aegon thanks, fixing
– Federico
Apr 16 at 19:49
@Aegon thanks, fixing
– Federico
Apr 16 at 19:49
|
show 4 more comments
Because he has forsaken all claims to that title and any other title the moment he joined the Night's Watch.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. - Night's Watch Vows
Not to mention that those who join the Citadel to become Maesters also forsake claims to titles.
When an acolyte of noble birth takes his vows and dons his chain, he puts aside his House name. He swears sacred vows, promising to hold no lands or lordships, and to be celibate. - Maester Vows
answered Apr 16 at 14:19
VirusbombVirusbomb
1,8561615
4
Sam had not yet taken the oath to become a Maester so the second point isn't correct here. Acolytes and novices are free to leave as they please until they take the oath.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:21
add a comment |
Because he has forsaken all claims to that title and any other title the moment he joined the Night's Watch.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. - Night's Watch Vows
Not to mention that those who join the Citadel to become Maesters also forsake claims to titles.
When an acolyte of noble birth takes his vows and dons his chain, he puts aside his House name. He swears sacred vows, promising to hold no lands or lordships, and to be celibate. - Maester Vows
answered Apr 16 at 14:19
VirusbombVirusbomb
1,8561615
4
Sam had not yet taken the oath to become a Maester so the second point isn't correct here. Acolytes and novices are free to leave as they please until they take the oath.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:21
add a comment |
Because he has forsaken all claims to that title and any other title the moment he joined the Night's Watch.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. - Night's Watch Vows
Not to mention that those who join the Citadel to become Maesters also forsake claims to titles.
When an acolyte of noble birth takes his vows and dons his chain, he puts aside his House name. He swears sacred vows, promising to hold no lands or lordships, and to be celibate. - Maester Vows
answered Apr 16 at 14:19
VirusbombVirusbomb
1,8561615
Because he has forsaken all claims to that title and any other title the moment he joined the Night's Watch.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. - Night's Watch Vows
Not to mention that those who join the Citadel to become Maesters also forsake claims to titles.
When an acolyte of noble birth takes his vows and dons his chain, he puts aside his House name. He swears sacred vows, promising to hold no lands or lordships, and to be celibate. - Maester Vows
answered Apr 16 at 14:19
VirusbombVirusbomb
1,8561615
answered Apr 16 at 14:19
VirusbombVirusbomb
1,8561615
answered Apr 16 at 14:19
VirusbombVirusbomb
1,8561615
answered Apr 16 at 14:19
VirusbombVirusbomb
1,8561615
1,8561615
4
Sam had not yet taken the oath to become a Maester so the second point isn't correct here. Acolytes and novices are free to leave as they please until they take the oath.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:21
add a comment |
4
Sam had not yet taken the oath to become a Maester so the second point isn't correct here. Acolytes and novices are free to leave as they please until they take the oath.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:21
4
4
Sam had not yet taken the oath to become a Maester so the second point isn't correct here. Acolytes and novices are free to leave as they please until they take the oath.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:21
Sam had not yet taken the oath to become a Maester so the second point isn't correct here. Acolytes and novices are free to leave as they please until they take the oath.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:21
add a comment |
He is in the Nights Watch. Remember? He was sent to the Citadel by the Lord Commander to become a Maester?
That's one reason for why he can't become a Lord (or hasn't become a lord yet) but that might not even be the case, the time is not at all right, he had also vowed to never be with a woman, but he broke that vow, I do not see why it will not be possible for him to break away totally from the Night's Watch vow after the Great War ends (if it does and the living wins.)
Spoilers Ahead
Most of the answers above talks about his vows, totally understandable but until now Sam didn't even know his father and brother are dead, neither did Daenerys have any idea that Lord Randyll Tarly had one more son who could be the Lord. What about the Night's Watch vows? Oh, the Wall has fallen, the ancient order of the Night's Watch may not even be relevant now so how does the vows will matter after the War ends? If Jon Snow after becoming the King wants he can name him the Lord to at least save one great house from extinction, just like I believe he will legitimize Gendry to save the House Baratheon.
answered 2 days ago
Deepak KamatDeepak Kamat
1,77071937
add a comment |
He is in the Nights Watch. Remember? He was sent to the Citadel by the Lord Commander to become a Maester?
That's one reason for why he can't become a Lord (or hasn't become a lord yet) but that might not even be the case, the time is not at all right, he had also vowed to never be with a woman, but he broke that vow, I do not see why it will not be possible for him to break away totally from the Night's Watch vow after the Great War ends (if it does and the living wins.)
Spoilers Ahead
Most of the answers above talks about his vows, totally understandable but until now Sam didn't even know his father and brother are dead, neither did Daenerys have any idea that Lord Randyll Tarly had one more son who could be the Lord. What about the Night's Watch vows? Oh, the Wall has fallen, the ancient order of the Night's Watch may not even be relevant now so how does the vows will matter after the War ends? If Jon Snow after becoming the King wants he can name him the Lord to at least save one great house from extinction, just like I believe he will legitimize Gendry to save the House Baratheon.
answered 2 days ago
Deepak KamatDeepak Kamat
1,77071937
add a comment |
He is in the Nights Watch. Remember? He was sent to the Citadel by the Lord Commander to become a Maester?
That's one reason for why he can't become a Lord (or hasn't become a lord yet) but that might not even be the case, the time is not at all right, he had also vowed to never be with a woman, but he broke that vow, I do not see why it will not be possible for him to break away totally from the Night's Watch vow after the Great War ends (if it does and the living wins.)
Spoilers Ahead
Most of the answers above talks about his vows, totally understandable but until now Sam didn't even know his father and brother are dead, neither did Daenerys have any idea that Lord Randyll Tarly had one more son who could be the Lord. What about the Night's Watch vows? Oh, the Wall has fallen, the ancient order of the Night's Watch may not even be relevant now so how does the vows will matter after the War ends? If Jon Snow after becoming the King wants he can name him the Lord to at least save one great house from extinction, just like I believe he will legitimize Gendry to save the House Baratheon.
answered 2 days ago
Deepak KamatDeepak Kamat
1,77071937
He is in the Nights Watch. Remember? He was sent to the Citadel by the Lord Commander to become a Maester?
That's one reason for why he can't become a Lord (or hasn't become a lord yet) but that might not even be the case, the time is not at all right, he had also vowed to never be with a woman, but he broke that vow, I do not see why it will not be possible for him to break away totally from the Night's Watch vow after the Great War ends (if it does and the living wins.)
Spoilers Ahead
Most of the answers above talks about his vows, totally understandable but until now Sam didn't even know his father and brother are dead, neither did Daenerys have any idea that Lord Randyll Tarly had one more son who could be the Lord. What about the Night's Watch vows? Oh, the Wall has fallen, the ancient order of the Night's Watch may not even be relevant now so how does the vows will matter after the War ends? If Jon Snow after becoming the King wants he can name him the Lord to at least save one great house from extinction, just like I believe he will legitimize Gendry to save the House Baratheon.
answered 2 days ago
Deepak KamatDeepak Kamat
1,77071937
answered 2 days ago
Deepak KamatDeepak Kamat
1,77071937
answered 2 days ago
Deepak KamatDeepak Kamat
1,77071937
answered 2 days ago
Deepak KamatDeepak Kamat
1,77071937
1,77071937
add a comment |
add a comment |
It is probably because of that scene with his father; when Sam was at home just before going to the citadel.
They were having a family dinner, and when Sam's father found out about Gilly being a wildling, the women left the table, and when they were alone, Randyll told Sam that Gilly and little Sam are welcome to stay there, Gilly will have to serve as a servant and he will raise his grandson, but Sam will no longer be welcome in Horn Hill and has to leave by first light. Sam then proceed to get Gilly and Heartsbane and go to the citadel.
So it is implied that Sam's father banished/disowned Sam, when he found out that his son is with a wildling.
answered Apr 16 at 14:25
NochiNochi
1454
1
His father did banish him, no doubt and I know that, but such thing should be nullified when the father and remaining heirs are dead. At least that's common sense for me. No?
– Shadow Wizard
Apr 16 at 14:27
2
Randyll had already pretty much banished Sam anyway by forcing him off to the Wall so that Dickon could inherit.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:28
1
This is all irrelevant because Sam had already given up his family rights when he joined the Night's Watch.
– only_pro
2 days ago
add a comment |
It is probably because of that scene with his father; when Sam was at home just before going to the citadel.
They were having a family dinner, and when Sam's father found out about Gilly being a wildling, the women left the table, and when they were alone, Randyll told Sam that Gilly and little Sam are welcome to stay there, Gilly will have to serve as a servant and he will raise his grandson, but Sam will no longer be welcome in Horn Hill and has to leave by first light. Sam then proceed to get Gilly and Heartsbane and go to the citadel.
So it is implied that Sam's father banished/disowned Sam, when he found out that his son is with a wildling.
answered Apr 16 at 14:25
NochiNochi
1454
1
His father did banish him, no doubt and I know that, but such thing should be nullified when the father and remaining heirs are dead. At least that's common sense for me. No?
– Shadow Wizard
Apr 16 at 14:27
2
Randyll had already pretty much banished Sam anyway by forcing him off to the Wall so that Dickon could inherit.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:28
1
This is all irrelevant because Sam had already given up his family rights when he joined the Night's Watch.
– only_pro
2 days ago
add a comment |
It is probably because of that scene with his father; when Sam was at home just before going to the citadel.
They were having a family dinner, and when Sam's father found out about Gilly being a wildling, the women left the table, and when they were alone, Randyll told Sam that Gilly and little Sam are welcome to stay there, Gilly will have to serve as a servant and he will raise his grandson, but Sam will no longer be welcome in Horn Hill and has to leave by first light. Sam then proceed to get Gilly and Heartsbane and go to the citadel.
So it is implied that Sam's father banished/disowned Sam, when he found out that his son is with a wildling.
answered Apr 16 at 14:25
NochiNochi
1454
It is probably because of that scene with his father; when Sam was at home just before going to the citadel.
They were having a family dinner, and when Sam's father found out about Gilly being a wildling, the women left the table, and when they were alone, Randyll told Sam that Gilly and little Sam are welcome to stay there, Gilly will have to serve as a servant and he will raise his grandson, but Sam will no longer be welcome in Horn Hill and has to leave by first light. Sam then proceed to get Gilly and Heartsbane and go to the citadel.
So it is implied that Sam's father banished/disowned Sam, when he found out that his son is with a wildling.
answered Apr 16 at 14:25
NochiNochi
1454
edited Apr 16 at 15:00
answered Apr 16 at 14:25
NochiNochi
1454
answered Apr 16 at 14:25
NochiNochi
1454
answered Apr 16 at 14:25
NochiNochi
1454
1454
1
His father did banish him, no doubt and I know that, but such thing should be nullified when the father and remaining heirs are dead. At least that's common sense for me. No?
– Shadow Wizard
Apr 16 at 14:27
2
Randyll had already pretty much banished Sam anyway by forcing him off to the Wall so that Dickon could inherit.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:28
1
This is all irrelevant because Sam had already given up his family rights when he joined the Night's Watch.
– only_pro
2 days ago
add a comment |
1
His father did banish him, no doubt and I know that, but such thing should be nullified when the father and remaining heirs are dead. At least that's common sense for me. No?
– Shadow Wizard
Apr 16 at 14:27
2
Randyll had already pretty much banished Sam anyway by forcing him off to the Wall so that Dickon could inherit.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:28
1
This is all irrelevant because Sam had already given up his family rights when he joined the Night's Watch.
– only_pro
2 days ago
1
1
His father did banish him, no doubt and I know that, but such thing should be nullified when the father and remaining heirs are dead. At least that's common sense for me. No?
– Shadow Wizard
Apr 16 at 14:27
His father did banish him, no doubt and I know that, but such thing should be nullified when the father and remaining heirs are dead. At least that's common sense for me. No?
– Shadow Wizard
Apr 16 at 14:27
2
2
Randyll had already pretty much banished Sam anyway by forcing him off to the Wall so that Dickon could inherit.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:28
Randyll had already pretty much banished Sam anyway by forcing him off to the Wall so that Dickon could inherit.
– TheLethalCarrot
Apr 16 at 14:28
1
1
This is all irrelevant because Sam had already given up his family rights when he joined the Night's Watch.
– only_pro
2 days ago
This is all irrelevant because Sam had already given up his family rights when he joined the Night's Watch.
– only_pro
2 days ago
add a comment |
While his vow to the Night's watch provides some technicality and may have mattered if this happened a few years before current events, the main reason is because naming a successor is not a priority right now.
Daenerys and Jon do not own the lands around Horn Hill right now, the Lannisters do and will certainly not give them to Jon's best friend. Furthermore, Jon and Dany are in a quite pressing war for basic survival (vs the dead) and another war for supremacy (vs Cersei). They simply do not have the time to appoint lords over contested lands right now, that is for when they win.
At that point, it might be Horn Hill goes to another family. Though if Dany/Jon prevail and Sam survives there is also a good chance he gets the land, because why keep the Night's watch after its purpose has been fulfilled?
answered 2 days ago
KillianDSKillianDS
1,7741420
add a comment |
While his vow to the Night's watch provides some technicality and may have mattered if this happened a few years before current events, the main reason is because naming a successor is not a priority right now.
Daenerys and Jon do not own the lands around Horn Hill right now, the Lannisters do and will certainly not give them to Jon's best friend. Furthermore, Jon and Dany are in a quite pressing war for basic survival (vs the dead) and another war for supremacy (vs Cersei). They simply do not have the time to appoint lords over contested lands right now, that is for when they win.
At that point, it might be Horn Hill goes to another family. Though if Dany/Jon prevail and Sam survives there is also a good chance he gets the land, because why keep the Night's watch after its purpose has been fulfilled?
answered 2 days ago
KillianDSKillianDS
1,7741420
add a comment |
While his vow to the Night's watch provides some technicality and may have mattered if this happened a few years before current events, the main reason is because naming a successor is not a priority right now.
Daenerys and Jon do not own the lands around Horn Hill right now, the Lannisters do and will certainly not give them to Jon's best friend. Furthermore, Jon and Dany are in a quite pressing war for basic survival (vs the dead) and another war for supremacy (vs Cersei). They simply do not have the time to appoint lords over contested lands right now, that is for when they win.
At that point, it might be Horn Hill goes to another family. Though if Dany/Jon prevail and Sam survives there is also a good chance he gets the land, because why keep the Night's watch after its purpose has been fulfilled?
answered 2 days ago
KillianDSKillianDS
1,7741420
While his vow to the Night's watch provides some technicality and may have mattered if this happened a few years before current events, the main reason is because naming a successor is not a priority right now.
Daenerys and Jon do not own the lands around Horn Hill right now, the Lannisters do and will certainly not give them to Jon's best friend. Furthermore, Jon and Dany are in a quite pressing war for basic survival (vs the dead) and another war for supremacy (vs Cersei). They simply do not have the time to appoint lords over contested lands right now, that is for when they win.
At that point, it might be Horn Hill goes to another family. Though if Dany/Jon prevail and Sam survives there is also a good chance he gets the land, because why keep the Night's watch after its purpose has been fulfilled?
answered 2 days ago
KillianDSKillianDS
1,7741420
answered 2 days ago
KillianDSKillianDS
1,7741420
answered 2 days ago
KillianDSKillianDS
1,7741420
answered 2 days ago
KillianDSKillianDS
1,7741420
1,7741420
add a comment |
add a comment |
