What is preventing me from simply constructing a hash that's lower than the current target? Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?What values are hashed in the SHA-256 algorithm, and what would be the next iteration until a possible header is found?Why change the nonce instead of just rehashing?How is a block header hash compared to the target (bits)?How does mining process takes Approximately 10 minutes?Why check for multiple nonces despite finding a golden nonce?if a Bitcoin mining nounce is just 32 bits long how come is it increasingly difficult to find the winning hash?With the current hashrate, how does it still take 10min to solve a bitcoin block?Why the nonce is difficult to find in Bitcoin?Calculating the target from the hash leading off bitsWhat is the exact input for the hash function?
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What is preventing me from simply constructing a hash that's lower than the current target?
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?What values are hashed in the SHA-256 algorithm, and what would be the next iteration until a possible header is found?Why change the nonce instead of just rehashing?How is a block header hash compared to the target (bits)?How does mining process takes Approximately 10 minutes?Why check for multiple nonces despite finding a golden nonce?if a Bitcoin mining nounce is just 32 bits long how come is it increasingly difficult to find the winning hash?With the current hashrate, how does it still take 10min to solve a bitcoin block?Why the nonce is difficult to find in Bitcoin?Calculating the target from the hash leading off bitsWhat is the exact input for the hash function?
I just started learning about Bitcoin, and something I can figure out is why miners have to use a random process (hashing a nonce) to get lower than the target. For example, if the target is
00000000000001ae00000000000000
why not just produce
000000000000000000000000000001
to become the winner? I have no practical experience mining, I'm guessing my ignorance lies in the requirements of how a hash is produced. If so, where can I find about those requirements? Thanks.
EDIT: For clarity, I mean this in the sense of what part of the technology requires me to use a hash function? Rather than in the sense of just constructing something that looks like a valid hash.
mining-theory hash
New contributor
add a comment |
I just started learning about Bitcoin, and something I can figure out is why miners have to use a random process (hashing a nonce) to get lower than the target. For example, if the target is
00000000000001ae00000000000000
why not just produce
000000000000000000000000000001
to become the winner? I have no practical experience mining, I'm guessing my ignorance lies in the requirements of how a hash is produced. If so, where can I find about those requirements? Thanks.
EDIT: For clarity, I mean this in the sense of what part of the technology requires me to use a hash function? Rather than in the sense of just constructing something that looks like a valid hash.
mining-theory hash
New contributor
2
Other nodes checking your hash will notice that you are lying: the hash does not match the calculated hash. The only thing you can do to influence weather your hash matches the calculated hash is to change the nonce and try - this is in fact the proof of work algorithm - change nonce, calculate hash, see if it fits the target and try, try again. You are always welcome to voluntarily choose a harder target but statistically that means other people would be able to find a matching hash before you
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:38
2
Also, you have a slight misunderstanding. The process is not hashing the nonce, it is hashing the block. Of course hashing the block will generate a fixed hash value which may never match the target. The solution? Allow miners to add their own garbage/ignored data to the block - the nonce - then hash the whole thing. If the hash don't match the target you need to change the nonce and retry. In this way it is impossible to pre-calculate the hash using a pre-generated nonce because you have no control over the other data in the block
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:42
add a comment |
I just started learning about Bitcoin, and something I can figure out is why miners have to use a random process (hashing a nonce) to get lower than the target. For example, if the target is
00000000000001ae00000000000000
why not just produce
000000000000000000000000000001
to become the winner? I have no practical experience mining, I'm guessing my ignorance lies in the requirements of how a hash is produced. If so, where can I find about those requirements? Thanks.
EDIT: For clarity, I mean this in the sense of what part of the technology requires me to use a hash function? Rather than in the sense of just constructing something that looks like a valid hash.
mining-theory hash
New contributor
I just started learning about Bitcoin, and something I can figure out is why miners have to use a random process (hashing a nonce) to get lower than the target. For example, if the target is
00000000000001ae00000000000000
why not just produce
000000000000000000000000000001
to become the winner? I have no practical experience mining, I'm guessing my ignorance lies in the requirements of how a hash is produced. If so, where can I find about those requirements? Thanks.
EDIT: For clarity, I mean this in the sense of what part of the technology requires me to use a hash function? Rather than in the sense of just constructing something that looks like a valid hash.
mining-theory hash
mining-theory hash
New contributor
New contributor
edited Apr 12 at 3:25
Zduff
New contributor
asked Apr 11 at 19:53
ZduffZduff
1285
1285
New contributor
New contributor
2
Other nodes checking your hash will notice that you are lying: the hash does not match the calculated hash. The only thing you can do to influence weather your hash matches the calculated hash is to change the nonce and try - this is in fact the proof of work algorithm - change nonce, calculate hash, see if it fits the target and try, try again. You are always welcome to voluntarily choose a harder target but statistically that means other people would be able to find a matching hash before you
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:38
2
Also, you have a slight misunderstanding. The process is not hashing the nonce, it is hashing the block. Of course hashing the block will generate a fixed hash value which may never match the target. The solution? Allow miners to add their own garbage/ignored data to the block - the nonce - then hash the whole thing. If the hash don't match the target you need to change the nonce and retry. In this way it is impossible to pre-calculate the hash using a pre-generated nonce because you have no control over the other data in the block
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:42
add a comment |
2
Other nodes checking your hash will notice that you are lying: the hash does not match the calculated hash. The only thing you can do to influence weather your hash matches the calculated hash is to change the nonce and try - this is in fact the proof of work algorithm - change nonce, calculate hash, see if it fits the target and try, try again. You are always welcome to voluntarily choose a harder target but statistically that means other people would be able to find a matching hash before you
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:38
2
Also, you have a slight misunderstanding. The process is not hashing the nonce, it is hashing the block. Of course hashing the block will generate a fixed hash value which may never match the target. The solution? Allow miners to add their own garbage/ignored data to the block - the nonce - then hash the whole thing. If the hash don't match the target you need to change the nonce and retry. In this way it is impossible to pre-calculate the hash using a pre-generated nonce because you have no control over the other data in the block
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:42
2
2
Other nodes checking your hash will notice that you are lying: the hash does not match the calculated hash. The only thing you can do to influence weather your hash matches the calculated hash is to change the nonce and try - this is in fact the proof of work algorithm - change nonce, calculate hash, see if it fits the target and try, try again. You are always welcome to voluntarily choose a harder target but statistically that means other people would be able to find a matching hash before you
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:38
Other nodes checking your hash will notice that you are lying: the hash does not match the calculated hash. The only thing you can do to influence weather your hash matches the calculated hash is to change the nonce and try - this is in fact the proof of work algorithm - change nonce, calculate hash, see if it fits the target and try, try again. You are always welcome to voluntarily choose a harder target but statistically that means other people would be able to find a matching hash before you
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:38
2
2
Also, you have a slight misunderstanding. The process is not hashing the nonce, it is hashing the block. Of course hashing the block will generate a fixed hash value which may never match the target. The solution? Allow miners to add their own garbage/ignored data to the block - the nonce - then hash the whole thing. If the hash don't match the target you need to change the nonce and retry. In this way it is impossible to pre-calculate the hash using a pre-generated nonce because you have no control over the other data in the block
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:42
Also, you have a slight misunderstanding. The process is not hashing the nonce, it is hashing the block. Of course hashing the block will generate a fixed hash value which may never match the target. The solution? Allow miners to add their own garbage/ignored data to the block - the nonce - then hash the whole thing. If the hash don't match the target you need to change the nonce and retry. In this way it is impossible to pre-calculate the hash using a pre-generated nonce because you have no control over the other data in the block
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:42
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
EDIT: For clarity, I mean this in the sense of what part of the technology requires me to use a hash function? As opposed, to just constructing something that looks like a valid hash.
When determining whether or not a block is valid, each and every bitcoin node on the network will take the header of that block, and run it through a hashing algorithm to see what the output is. If the output is lower than the target value, then the block is valid (assuming that the rest of the block is also valid, of course).
Notice something important: the hash value itself is not explicitly stored in the block. So you cannot just append some fabricated value that falls below the target value onto the block in lieu of a valid PoW. To create a valid block, you must construct it such that all other network nodes can independently verify it as being valid, and to do so, they use a hash function.
As Pieter mentioned, hash functions are unpredictable 'one-way' functions. The only way to find a valid output is by trying a huge number of possible inputs, and 'getting lucky', so to speak.
It's not quite that simple. The hash needs to be resistant to pre-image attacks.
– jpmc26
Apr 12 at 1:08
3
@jpmc26 Any useful cryptographic hash function should be.
– immibis
Apr 12 at 4:00
1
@jpmc26 A cryptographic hash function is commonly understood to mean indistinguishable from random, which implies preimage and collision resistant. This doesn't hold for non-cryptographic hash functions.
– Pieter Wuille
Apr 12 at 14:17
add a comment |
Hash functions are unpredictable.
You can't simply find an input to the hash function that produces such an output. The only way to accomplish that is by trying lots and lots of candidate blocks as input. If the target is 1000 times smaller, it requires 1000 times as many tries.
Deleted comment. Please see edit to question.
– Zduff
Apr 11 at 20:05
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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EDIT: For clarity, I mean this in the sense of what part of the technology requires me to use a hash function? As opposed, to just constructing something that looks like a valid hash.
When determining whether or not a block is valid, each and every bitcoin node on the network will take the header of that block, and run it through a hashing algorithm to see what the output is. If the output is lower than the target value, then the block is valid (assuming that the rest of the block is also valid, of course).
Notice something important: the hash value itself is not explicitly stored in the block. So you cannot just append some fabricated value that falls below the target value onto the block in lieu of a valid PoW. To create a valid block, you must construct it such that all other network nodes can independently verify it as being valid, and to do so, they use a hash function.
As Pieter mentioned, hash functions are unpredictable 'one-way' functions. The only way to find a valid output is by trying a huge number of possible inputs, and 'getting lucky', so to speak.
It's not quite that simple. The hash needs to be resistant to pre-image attacks.
– jpmc26
Apr 12 at 1:08
3
@jpmc26 Any useful cryptographic hash function should be.
– immibis
Apr 12 at 4:00
1
@jpmc26 A cryptographic hash function is commonly understood to mean indistinguishable from random, which implies preimage and collision resistant. This doesn't hold for non-cryptographic hash functions.
– Pieter Wuille
Apr 12 at 14:17
add a comment |
EDIT: For clarity, I mean this in the sense of what part of the technology requires me to use a hash function? As opposed, to just constructing something that looks like a valid hash.
When determining whether or not a block is valid, each and every bitcoin node on the network will take the header of that block, and run it through a hashing algorithm to see what the output is. If the output is lower than the target value, then the block is valid (assuming that the rest of the block is also valid, of course).
Notice something important: the hash value itself is not explicitly stored in the block. So you cannot just append some fabricated value that falls below the target value onto the block in lieu of a valid PoW. To create a valid block, you must construct it such that all other network nodes can independently verify it as being valid, and to do so, they use a hash function.
As Pieter mentioned, hash functions are unpredictable 'one-way' functions. The only way to find a valid output is by trying a huge number of possible inputs, and 'getting lucky', so to speak.
It's not quite that simple. The hash needs to be resistant to pre-image attacks.
– jpmc26
Apr 12 at 1:08
3
@jpmc26 Any useful cryptographic hash function should be.
– immibis
Apr 12 at 4:00
1
@jpmc26 A cryptographic hash function is commonly understood to mean indistinguishable from random, which implies preimage and collision resistant. This doesn't hold for non-cryptographic hash functions.
– Pieter Wuille
Apr 12 at 14:17
add a comment |
EDIT: For clarity, I mean this in the sense of what part of the technology requires me to use a hash function? As opposed, to just constructing something that looks like a valid hash.
When determining whether or not a block is valid, each and every bitcoin node on the network will take the header of that block, and run it through a hashing algorithm to see what the output is. If the output is lower than the target value, then the block is valid (assuming that the rest of the block is also valid, of course).
Notice something important: the hash value itself is not explicitly stored in the block. So you cannot just append some fabricated value that falls below the target value onto the block in lieu of a valid PoW. To create a valid block, you must construct it such that all other network nodes can independently verify it as being valid, and to do so, they use a hash function.
As Pieter mentioned, hash functions are unpredictable 'one-way' functions. The only way to find a valid output is by trying a huge number of possible inputs, and 'getting lucky', so to speak.
EDIT: For clarity, I mean this in the sense of what part of the technology requires me to use a hash function? As opposed, to just constructing something that looks like a valid hash.
When determining whether or not a block is valid, each and every bitcoin node on the network will take the header of that block, and run it through a hashing algorithm to see what the output is. If the output is lower than the target value, then the block is valid (assuming that the rest of the block is also valid, of course).
Notice something important: the hash value itself is not explicitly stored in the block. So you cannot just append some fabricated value that falls below the target value onto the block in lieu of a valid PoW. To create a valid block, you must construct it such that all other network nodes can independently verify it as being valid, and to do so, they use a hash function.
As Pieter mentioned, hash functions are unpredictable 'one-way' functions. The only way to find a valid output is by trying a huge number of possible inputs, and 'getting lucky', so to speak.
answered Apr 11 at 20:50
chytrikchytrik
7,5422628
7,5422628
It's not quite that simple. The hash needs to be resistant to pre-image attacks.
– jpmc26
Apr 12 at 1:08
3
@jpmc26 Any useful cryptographic hash function should be.
– immibis
Apr 12 at 4:00
1
@jpmc26 A cryptographic hash function is commonly understood to mean indistinguishable from random, which implies preimage and collision resistant. This doesn't hold for non-cryptographic hash functions.
– Pieter Wuille
Apr 12 at 14:17
add a comment |
It's not quite that simple. The hash needs to be resistant to pre-image attacks.
– jpmc26
Apr 12 at 1:08
3
@jpmc26 Any useful cryptographic hash function should be.
– immibis
Apr 12 at 4:00
1
@jpmc26 A cryptographic hash function is commonly understood to mean indistinguishable from random, which implies preimage and collision resistant. This doesn't hold for non-cryptographic hash functions.
– Pieter Wuille
Apr 12 at 14:17
It's not quite that simple. The hash needs to be resistant to pre-image attacks.
– jpmc26
Apr 12 at 1:08
It's not quite that simple. The hash needs to be resistant to pre-image attacks.
– jpmc26
Apr 12 at 1:08
3
3
@jpmc26 Any useful cryptographic hash function should be.
– immibis
Apr 12 at 4:00
@jpmc26 Any useful cryptographic hash function should be.
– immibis
Apr 12 at 4:00
1
1
@jpmc26 A cryptographic hash function is commonly understood to mean indistinguishable from random, which implies preimage and collision resistant. This doesn't hold for non-cryptographic hash functions.
– Pieter Wuille
Apr 12 at 14:17
@jpmc26 A cryptographic hash function is commonly understood to mean indistinguishable from random, which implies preimage and collision resistant. This doesn't hold for non-cryptographic hash functions.
– Pieter Wuille
Apr 12 at 14:17
add a comment |
Hash functions are unpredictable.
You can't simply find an input to the hash function that produces such an output. The only way to accomplish that is by trying lots and lots of candidate blocks as input. If the target is 1000 times smaller, it requires 1000 times as many tries.
Deleted comment. Please see edit to question.
– Zduff
Apr 11 at 20:05
add a comment |
Hash functions are unpredictable.
You can't simply find an input to the hash function that produces such an output. The only way to accomplish that is by trying lots and lots of candidate blocks as input. If the target is 1000 times smaller, it requires 1000 times as many tries.
Deleted comment. Please see edit to question.
– Zduff
Apr 11 at 20:05
add a comment |
Hash functions are unpredictable.
You can't simply find an input to the hash function that produces such an output. The only way to accomplish that is by trying lots and lots of candidate blocks as input. If the target is 1000 times smaller, it requires 1000 times as many tries.
Hash functions are unpredictable.
You can't simply find an input to the hash function that produces such an output. The only way to accomplish that is by trying lots and lots of candidate blocks as input. If the target is 1000 times smaller, it requires 1000 times as many tries.
answered Apr 11 at 19:58
Pieter WuillePieter Wuille
48.3k3100163
48.3k3100163
Deleted comment. Please see edit to question.
– Zduff
Apr 11 at 20:05
add a comment |
Deleted comment. Please see edit to question.
– Zduff
Apr 11 at 20:05
Deleted comment. Please see edit to question.
– Zduff
Apr 11 at 20:05
Deleted comment. Please see edit to question.
– Zduff
Apr 11 at 20:05
add a comment |
Zduff is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Zduff is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Other nodes checking your hash will notice that you are lying: the hash does not match the calculated hash. The only thing you can do to influence weather your hash matches the calculated hash is to change the nonce and try - this is in fact the proof of work algorithm - change nonce, calculate hash, see if it fits the target and try, try again. You are always welcome to voluntarily choose a harder target but statistically that means other people would be able to find a matching hash before you
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:38
2
Also, you have a slight misunderstanding. The process is not hashing the nonce, it is hashing the block. Of course hashing the block will generate a fixed hash value which may never match the target. The solution? Allow miners to add their own garbage/ignored data to the block - the nonce - then hash the whole thing. If the hash don't match the target you need to change the nonce and retry. In this way it is impossible to pre-calculate the hash using a pre-generated nonce because you have no control over the other data in the block
– slebetman
Apr 12 at 6:42