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What do these terms in Caesar's Gallic Wars mean?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Julius Caesar's view on Celts and GermansWhat age were these Britons in A.D. 43?What did Richelieu mean by his “six lines” quote?Gaulish logistics during Caesar's invasionHow did Tetricus, the last Gallic Emperor, obtain his agnomen?What allowed or prevented Roman conquest in terms of population, climate and geography?What did Winston Churchill mean by this quote?What happened to these buildings near the Seine?What are the dates of these panoramas of Paris?What are these cubbies?










3















In his Comentarii de bello Gallico, Ceasar writes this on first page:




The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun. Aquitania extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star.




How to interpret rising setting/rising sun and North star, they don't make sense as East/West and North ?



What does 'look towards' mean ?










share|improve this question



















  • 2





    I'm not sure what doesn't make sense. The region between the north star and the rising sun is "Northeast", the region between the north star and the setting sun is "Northwest". Can you explain your confusion?

    – Mark C. Wallace
    Apr 11 at 16:38












  • Okay , i was thinking only in four directions

    – Kutsit
    Apr 11 at 16:48











  • Of course Caesar did not write this: some translator did. Maybe you should ask latin.stackexchange.com for help.

    – kimchi lover
    Apr 11 at 18:38















3















In his Comentarii de bello Gallico, Ceasar writes this on first page:




The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun. Aquitania extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star.




How to interpret rising setting/rising sun and North star, they don't make sense as East/West and North ?



What does 'look towards' mean ?










share|improve this question



















  • 2





    I'm not sure what doesn't make sense. The region between the north star and the rising sun is "Northeast", the region between the north star and the setting sun is "Northwest". Can you explain your confusion?

    – Mark C. Wallace
    Apr 11 at 16:38












  • Okay , i was thinking only in four directions

    – Kutsit
    Apr 11 at 16:48











  • Of course Caesar did not write this: some translator did. Maybe you should ask latin.stackexchange.com for help.

    – kimchi lover
    Apr 11 at 18:38













3












3








3








In his Comentarii de bello Gallico, Ceasar writes this on first page:




The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun. Aquitania extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star.




How to interpret rising setting/rising sun and North star, they don't make sense as East/West and North ?



What does 'look towards' mean ?










share|improve this question
















In his Comentarii de bello Gallico, Ceasar writes this on first page:




The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun. Aquitania extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star.




How to interpret rising setting/rising sun and North star, they don't make sense as East/West and North ?



What does 'look towards' mean ?







roman-empire france julius-caesar latin-language






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Apr 12 at 1:38









sempaiscuba

54.4k6187236




54.4k6187236










asked Apr 11 at 16:33









KutsitKutsit

888




888







  • 2





    I'm not sure what doesn't make sense. The region between the north star and the rising sun is "Northeast", the region between the north star and the setting sun is "Northwest". Can you explain your confusion?

    – Mark C. Wallace
    Apr 11 at 16:38












  • Okay , i was thinking only in four directions

    – Kutsit
    Apr 11 at 16:48











  • Of course Caesar did not write this: some translator did. Maybe you should ask latin.stackexchange.com for help.

    – kimchi lover
    Apr 11 at 18:38












  • 2





    I'm not sure what doesn't make sense. The region between the north star and the rising sun is "Northeast", the region between the north star and the setting sun is "Northwest". Can you explain your confusion?

    – Mark C. Wallace
    Apr 11 at 16:38












  • Okay , i was thinking only in four directions

    – Kutsit
    Apr 11 at 16:48











  • Of course Caesar did not write this: some translator did. Maybe you should ask latin.stackexchange.com for help.

    – kimchi lover
    Apr 11 at 18:38







2




2





I'm not sure what doesn't make sense. The region between the north star and the rising sun is "Northeast", the region between the north star and the setting sun is "Northwest". Can you explain your confusion?

– Mark C. Wallace
Apr 11 at 16:38






I'm not sure what doesn't make sense. The region between the north star and the rising sun is "Northeast", the region between the north star and the setting sun is "Northwest". Can you explain your confusion?

– Mark C. Wallace
Apr 11 at 16:38














Okay , i was thinking only in four directions

– Kutsit
Apr 11 at 16:48





Okay , i was thinking only in four directions

– Kutsit
Apr 11 at 16:48













Of course Caesar did not write this: some translator did. Maybe you should ask latin.stackexchange.com for help.

– kimchi lover
Apr 11 at 18:38





Of course Caesar did not write this: some translator did. Maybe you should ask latin.stackexchange.com for help.

– kimchi lover
Apr 11 at 18:38










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















11














It is, perhaps easier to understand when compared with a map:



Gaul in the time of Caesar



  • image source Wikimedia CC BY-SA 4.0


Now, Caesar's meaning should be a little more clear. When he says:




"The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun"




We can see that the territory of the Belgae extends from the frontier of Gaul furthest from Rome to the River Rhine in the South, and has a third border running northeast ("to the north and the rising sun").



It may seem a little confusing because the territory of the Belgae was roughly triangular, and so had only three borders.




Similarly, the territory of Aquitania, which




"extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star."




is bordered by the River Garonne, the Pyrenees and the ocean, with the fourth (northern) border running north-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




More generally, East is where the Sun rises, West is where it sets, and the North Star is in the north. Points between those on the compass would be North-east ("between the north star and the rising sun"), and North-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




It's also worth noting that translation from Latin to English (or, more generally, between any two languages) involves the translator making choices and interpretations.



My Latin copy of De bello Gallico has the following (emphasis mine):




"Belgae ab extremis Galliae finibus oriuntur; pertinent ad inferiorem partem fluminis Rheni; spectant in septentrionem et orientem solem."




and




"Aquitania a Garumna flumine ad Pyrenaeos montes et ad eam partem Oceani, quae est ad Hispaniam, pertinet; spectat inter occasum solis et septentriones."




Now, I quite like the 'standard' translation you quoted (it has a nice, poetic, ring), but alternate translations are certainly possible. However, whatever precise translation is preferred, the meaning of the text appears clear, as I described above.






share|improve this answer

























  • Thanks, for aquitane I am still confused, suppose i am in aquitane, to my west is Bay of Biscay, to south are Pyrenees, to North and east are Garonne river, what remains for North-west ?

    – Kutsit
    Apr 11 at 20:32






  • 1





    @ShlokVaibhav Caesar is describing the borders of Aquitaine. The northern border ran from north to west (i.e. in a northwesterly direction - see the map in the answer). Beyond that was Gaul (or 'Celtic Gaul' on the map), distinct from Gallia Narbonensis ('Prov Romana' on the map) which was beyond the Garonne to the east.

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 20:42







  • 1





    Great answer, but I think it should read "ad eaM partem Oceani" and not "ad eaRN partem Oceani". Oh, and "fiumine" should be "flumine" in "a Garumna flumine".

    – Gregory Higley
    Apr 11 at 22:03







  • 1





    @GregoryHigley Thank you. I've corrected them. The first was due to autocorrect, but the second was entirely down to me (big fingers, small screen/keyboard!).

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 22:13











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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









11














It is, perhaps easier to understand when compared with a map:



Gaul in the time of Caesar



  • image source Wikimedia CC BY-SA 4.0


Now, Caesar's meaning should be a little more clear. When he says:




"The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun"




We can see that the territory of the Belgae extends from the frontier of Gaul furthest from Rome to the River Rhine in the South, and has a third border running northeast ("to the north and the rising sun").



It may seem a little confusing because the territory of the Belgae was roughly triangular, and so had only three borders.




Similarly, the territory of Aquitania, which




"extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star."




is bordered by the River Garonne, the Pyrenees and the ocean, with the fourth (northern) border running north-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




More generally, East is where the Sun rises, West is where it sets, and the North Star is in the north. Points between those on the compass would be North-east ("between the north star and the rising sun"), and North-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




It's also worth noting that translation from Latin to English (or, more generally, between any two languages) involves the translator making choices and interpretations.



My Latin copy of De bello Gallico has the following (emphasis mine):




"Belgae ab extremis Galliae finibus oriuntur; pertinent ad inferiorem partem fluminis Rheni; spectant in septentrionem et orientem solem."




and




"Aquitania a Garumna flumine ad Pyrenaeos montes et ad eam partem Oceani, quae est ad Hispaniam, pertinet; spectat inter occasum solis et septentriones."




Now, I quite like the 'standard' translation you quoted (it has a nice, poetic, ring), but alternate translations are certainly possible. However, whatever precise translation is preferred, the meaning of the text appears clear, as I described above.






share|improve this answer

























  • Thanks, for aquitane I am still confused, suppose i am in aquitane, to my west is Bay of Biscay, to south are Pyrenees, to North and east are Garonne river, what remains for North-west ?

    – Kutsit
    Apr 11 at 20:32






  • 1





    @ShlokVaibhav Caesar is describing the borders of Aquitaine. The northern border ran from north to west (i.e. in a northwesterly direction - see the map in the answer). Beyond that was Gaul (or 'Celtic Gaul' on the map), distinct from Gallia Narbonensis ('Prov Romana' on the map) which was beyond the Garonne to the east.

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 20:42







  • 1





    Great answer, but I think it should read "ad eaM partem Oceani" and not "ad eaRN partem Oceani". Oh, and "fiumine" should be "flumine" in "a Garumna flumine".

    – Gregory Higley
    Apr 11 at 22:03







  • 1





    @GregoryHigley Thank you. I've corrected them. The first was due to autocorrect, but the second was entirely down to me (big fingers, small screen/keyboard!).

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 22:13















11














It is, perhaps easier to understand when compared with a map:



Gaul in the time of Caesar



  • image source Wikimedia CC BY-SA 4.0


Now, Caesar's meaning should be a little more clear. When he says:




"The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun"




We can see that the territory of the Belgae extends from the frontier of Gaul furthest from Rome to the River Rhine in the South, and has a third border running northeast ("to the north and the rising sun").



It may seem a little confusing because the territory of the Belgae was roughly triangular, and so had only three borders.




Similarly, the territory of Aquitania, which




"extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star."




is bordered by the River Garonne, the Pyrenees and the ocean, with the fourth (northern) border running north-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




More generally, East is where the Sun rises, West is where it sets, and the North Star is in the north. Points between those on the compass would be North-east ("between the north star and the rising sun"), and North-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




It's also worth noting that translation from Latin to English (or, more generally, between any two languages) involves the translator making choices and interpretations.



My Latin copy of De bello Gallico has the following (emphasis mine):




"Belgae ab extremis Galliae finibus oriuntur; pertinent ad inferiorem partem fluminis Rheni; spectant in septentrionem et orientem solem."




and




"Aquitania a Garumna flumine ad Pyrenaeos montes et ad eam partem Oceani, quae est ad Hispaniam, pertinet; spectat inter occasum solis et septentriones."




Now, I quite like the 'standard' translation you quoted (it has a nice, poetic, ring), but alternate translations are certainly possible. However, whatever precise translation is preferred, the meaning of the text appears clear, as I described above.






share|improve this answer

























  • Thanks, for aquitane I am still confused, suppose i am in aquitane, to my west is Bay of Biscay, to south are Pyrenees, to North and east are Garonne river, what remains for North-west ?

    – Kutsit
    Apr 11 at 20:32






  • 1





    @ShlokVaibhav Caesar is describing the borders of Aquitaine. The northern border ran from north to west (i.e. in a northwesterly direction - see the map in the answer). Beyond that was Gaul (or 'Celtic Gaul' on the map), distinct from Gallia Narbonensis ('Prov Romana' on the map) which was beyond the Garonne to the east.

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 20:42







  • 1





    Great answer, but I think it should read "ad eaM partem Oceani" and not "ad eaRN partem Oceani". Oh, and "fiumine" should be "flumine" in "a Garumna flumine".

    – Gregory Higley
    Apr 11 at 22:03







  • 1





    @GregoryHigley Thank you. I've corrected them. The first was due to autocorrect, but the second was entirely down to me (big fingers, small screen/keyboard!).

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 22:13













11












11








11







It is, perhaps easier to understand when compared with a map:



Gaul in the time of Caesar



  • image source Wikimedia CC BY-SA 4.0


Now, Caesar's meaning should be a little more clear. When he says:




"The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun"




We can see that the territory of the Belgae extends from the frontier of Gaul furthest from Rome to the River Rhine in the South, and has a third border running northeast ("to the north and the rising sun").



It may seem a little confusing because the territory of the Belgae was roughly triangular, and so had only three borders.




Similarly, the territory of Aquitania, which




"extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star."




is bordered by the River Garonne, the Pyrenees and the ocean, with the fourth (northern) border running north-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




More generally, East is where the Sun rises, West is where it sets, and the North Star is in the north. Points between those on the compass would be North-east ("between the north star and the rising sun"), and North-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




It's also worth noting that translation from Latin to English (or, more generally, between any two languages) involves the translator making choices and interpretations.



My Latin copy of De bello Gallico has the following (emphasis mine):




"Belgae ab extremis Galliae finibus oriuntur; pertinent ad inferiorem partem fluminis Rheni; spectant in septentrionem et orientem solem."




and




"Aquitania a Garumna flumine ad Pyrenaeos montes et ad eam partem Oceani, quae est ad Hispaniam, pertinet; spectat inter occasum solis et septentriones."




Now, I quite like the 'standard' translation you quoted (it has a nice, poetic, ring), but alternate translations are certainly possible. However, whatever precise translation is preferred, the meaning of the text appears clear, as I described above.






share|improve this answer















It is, perhaps easier to understand when compared with a map:



Gaul in the time of Caesar



  • image source Wikimedia CC BY-SA 4.0


Now, Caesar's meaning should be a little more clear. When he says:




"The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine; and look toward the north and the rising sun"




We can see that the territory of the Belgae extends from the frontier of Gaul furthest from Rome to the River Rhine in the South, and has a third border running northeast ("to the north and the rising sun").



It may seem a little confusing because the territory of the Belgae was roughly triangular, and so had only three borders.




Similarly, the territory of Aquitania, which




"extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star."




is bordered by the River Garonne, the Pyrenees and the ocean, with the fourth (northern) border running north-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




More generally, East is where the Sun rises, West is where it sets, and the North Star is in the north. Points between those on the compass would be North-east ("between the north star and the rising sun"), and North-west ("between the setting of the sun, and the north star").




It's also worth noting that translation from Latin to English (or, more generally, between any two languages) involves the translator making choices and interpretations.



My Latin copy of De bello Gallico has the following (emphasis mine):




"Belgae ab extremis Galliae finibus oriuntur; pertinent ad inferiorem partem fluminis Rheni; spectant in septentrionem et orientem solem."




and




"Aquitania a Garumna flumine ad Pyrenaeos montes et ad eam partem Oceani, quae est ad Hispaniam, pertinet; spectat inter occasum solis et septentriones."




Now, I quite like the 'standard' translation you quoted (it has a nice, poetic, ring), but alternate translations are certainly possible. However, whatever precise translation is preferred, the meaning of the text appears clear, as I described above.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Apr 11 at 22:12

























answered Apr 11 at 16:45









sempaiscubasempaiscuba

54.4k6187236




54.4k6187236












  • Thanks, for aquitane I am still confused, suppose i am in aquitane, to my west is Bay of Biscay, to south are Pyrenees, to North and east are Garonne river, what remains for North-west ?

    – Kutsit
    Apr 11 at 20:32






  • 1





    @ShlokVaibhav Caesar is describing the borders of Aquitaine. The northern border ran from north to west (i.e. in a northwesterly direction - see the map in the answer). Beyond that was Gaul (or 'Celtic Gaul' on the map), distinct from Gallia Narbonensis ('Prov Romana' on the map) which was beyond the Garonne to the east.

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 20:42







  • 1





    Great answer, but I think it should read "ad eaM partem Oceani" and not "ad eaRN partem Oceani". Oh, and "fiumine" should be "flumine" in "a Garumna flumine".

    – Gregory Higley
    Apr 11 at 22:03







  • 1





    @GregoryHigley Thank you. I've corrected them. The first was due to autocorrect, but the second was entirely down to me (big fingers, small screen/keyboard!).

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 22:13

















  • Thanks, for aquitane I am still confused, suppose i am in aquitane, to my west is Bay of Biscay, to south are Pyrenees, to North and east are Garonne river, what remains for North-west ?

    – Kutsit
    Apr 11 at 20:32






  • 1





    @ShlokVaibhav Caesar is describing the borders of Aquitaine. The northern border ran from north to west (i.e. in a northwesterly direction - see the map in the answer). Beyond that was Gaul (or 'Celtic Gaul' on the map), distinct from Gallia Narbonensis ('Prov Romana' on the map) which was beyond the Garonne to the east.

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 20:42







  • 1





    Great answer, but I think it should read "ad eaM partem Oceani" and not "ad eaRN partem Oceani". Oh, and "fiumine" should be "flumine" in "a Garumna flumine".

    – Gregory Higley
    Apr 11 at 22:03







  • 1





    @GregoryHigley Thank you. I've corrected them. The first was due to autocorrect, but the second was entirely down to me (big fingers, small screen/keyboard!).

    – sempaiscuba
    Apr 11 at 22:13
















Thanks, for aquitane I am still confused, suppose i am in aquitane, to my west is Bay of Biscay, to south are Pyrenees, to North and east are Garonne river, what remains for North-west ?

– Kutsit
Apr 11 at 20:32





Thanks, for aquitane I am still confused, suppose i am in aquitane, to my west is Bay of Biscay, to south are Pyrenees, to North and east are Garonne river, what remains for North-west ?

– Kutsit
Apr 11 at 20:32




1




1





@ShlokVaibhav Caesar is describing the borders of Aquitaine. The northern border ran from north to west (i.e. in a northwesterly direction - see the map in the answer). Beyond that was Gaul (or 'Celtic Gaul' on the map), distinct from Gallia Narbonensis ('Prov Romana' on the map) which was beyond the Garonne to the east.

– sempaiscuba
Apr 11 at 20:42






@ShlokVaibhav Caesar is describing the borders of Aquitaine. The northern border ran from north to west (i.e. in a northwesterly direction - see the map in the answer). Beyond that was Gaul (or 'Celtic Gaul' on the map), distinct from Gallia Narbonensis ('Prov Romana' on the map) which was beyond the Garonne to the east.

– sempaiscuba
Apr 11 at 20:42





1




1





Great answer, but I think it should read "ad eaM partem Oceani" and not "ad eaRN partem Oceani". Oh, and "fiumine" should be "flumine" in "a Garumna flumine".

– Gregory Higley
Apr 11 at 22:03






Great answer, but I think it should read "ad eaM partem Oceani" and not "ad eaRN partem Oceani". Oh, and "fiumine" should be "flumine" in "a Garumna flumine".

– Gregory Higley
Apr 11 at 22:03





1




1





@GregoryHigley Thank you. I've corrected them. The first was due to autocorrect, but the second was entirely down to me (big fingers, small screen/keyboard!).

– sempaiscuba
Apr 11 at 22:13





@GregoryHigley Thank you. I've corrected them. The first was due to autocorrect, but the second was entirely down to me (big fingers, small screen/keyboard!).

– sempaiscuba
Apr 11 at 22:13

















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