Could a dragon use hot air to help it take off?How to convince a dragon to help people in battle?Could this Very Specific Dragon Fly?How to take down a dragon?How could cowboys and settlers in the 1880s slay a dragon?How to most effectively use a dragon using medieval level technology?Is there a reason a flying species can't use lighter than air gas to help provide lift?Can a dragon who can heat parts of its body at will use that to fly?Alternate uses for dragon wings?How hot is my dragon?Could a dragon use its wings to swim?
Reserved de-dupe rules
How to show the equivalence between the regularized regression and their constraint formulas using KKT
Is it inappropriate for a student to attend their mentor's dissertation defense?
UK: Is there precedent for the governments e-petition site changing the direction of a government decision?
Why is it a bad idea to hire a hitman to eliminate most corrupt politicians?
Were any external disk drives stacked vertically?
Took a trip to a parallel universe, need help deciphering
Arrow those variables!
Is the Joker left-handed?
In Romance of the Three Kingdoms why do people still use bamboo sticks when papers are already invented?
Do I have a twin with permutated remainders?
I'm flying to France today and my passport expires in less than 2 months
Should I tell management that I intend to leave due to bad software development practices?
Why are electrically insulating heatsinks so rare? Is it just cost?
Infinite Abelian subgroup of infinite non Abelian group example
A reference to a well-known characterization of scattered compact spaces
How to say in German "enjoying home comforts"
Today is the Center
What's the difference between 'rename' and 'mv'?
Can I make "comment-region" comment empty lines?
How can I make my BBEG immortal short of making them a Lich or Vampire?
What does it mean to describe someone as a butt steak?
Stopping power of mountain vs road bike
Can a rocket refuel on Mars from water?
Could a dragon use hot air to help it take off?
How to convince a dragon to help people in battle?Could this Very Specific Dragon Fly?How to take down a dragon?How could cowboys and settlers in the 1880s slay a dragon?How to most effectively use a dragon using medieval level technology?Is there a reason a flying species can't use lighter than air gas to help provide lift?Can a dragon who can heat parts of its body at will use that to fly?Alternate uses for dragon wings?How hot is my dragon?Could a dragon use its wings to swim?
$begingroup$
So a friend of mine came up with an interesting question. Considering the fairly universal following facts about western-style fantasy dragons:
a) dragons can breath fire
b) dragons themselves are fireproof
c) dragons have large wings, allowing them to fly (though the actual science of this is well-known to be fishy, let's for now pretend a dragon such as Toothless or Smaug can actually fly. Super light bones or whatever.)
d) hot air rises and creates lift
If the dragon can produce a large quantity/sizable blast of extremely high heat, could it be useful to the dragon for it napalm/torch the ground beneath it as it was taking off, in order to create additional lift for itself? Or would the effect of doing this be so negligible that it wouldn't be worth it to bother?
dragons flight
asked 2 days ago
MarielSMarielS
3108
New contributor
MarielS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So a friend of mine came up with an interesting question. Considering the fairly universal following facts about western-style fantasy dragons:
a) dragons can breath fire
b) dragons themselves are fireproof
c) dragons have large wings, allowing them to fly (though the actual science of this is well-known to be fishy, let's for now pretend a dragon such as Toothless or Smaug can actually fly. Super light bones or whatever.)
d) hot air rises and creates lift
If the dragon can produce a large quantity/sizable blast of extremely high heat, could it be useful to the dragon for it napalm/torch the ground beneath it as it was taking off, in order to create additional lift for itself? Or would the effect of doing this be so negligible that it wouldn't be worth it to bother?
dragons flight
asked 2 days ago
MarielSMarielS
3108
New contributor
MarielS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
This isn't quite what you're asking, so I'm leaving it as a comment rather than an answer, but there was a pseudo-documentary (possibly this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dragon_(2004_film) ) about dragons (the framing device being that it was a real documentary made in a world where they existed) that discussed something similar. Its dragons didn't fly by using their fire breath to heat air; rather, they had a swim bladder-like organ filled with hydrogen that was used to both maintain buoyancy for flight and to fuel the fire breath.
$endgroup$
– Ray
2 days ago
$begingroup$
"in order to create additional lift for itself?" quite the contrary. As the air temperature increases the amount of lift wings can produce is reduced due to the lower pressure.
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace: very much depends on the mode of flight and nature of the hot air. Birds use thermals to gain height all the time.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Indeed, but that does not mean that their wings produce more lift than in cold air
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace Guess it depends on how technical you are with language. If by ‘lift’ you mean the casual ‘upward force applied to the wings’ then you have got more in an updraft caused by hot air. If you mean the more technically correct ‘upward force caused by fluid flow over and under the wing in air of homogeneous temperature’ then you have less.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So a friend of mine came up with an interesting question. Considering the fairly universal following facts about western-style fantasy dragons:
a) dragons can breath fire
b) dragons themselves are fireproof
c) dragons have large wings, allowing them to fly (though the actual science of this is well-known to be fishy, let's for now pretend a dragon such as Toothless or Smaug can actually fly. Super light bones or whatever.)
d) hot air rises and creates lift
If the dragon can produce a large quantity/sizable blast of extremely high heat, could it be useful to the dragon for it napalm/torch the ground beneath it as it was taking off, in order to create additional lift for itself? Or would the effect of doing this be so negligible that it wouldn't be worth it to bother?
dragons flight
asked 2 days ago
MarielSMarielS
3108
New contributor
MarielS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
So a friend of mine came up with an interesting question. Considering the fairly universal following facts about western-style fantasy dragons:
a) dragons can breath fire
b) dragons themselves are fireproof
c) dragons have large wings, allowing them to fly (though the actual science of this is well-known to be fishy, let's for now pretend a dragon such as Toothless or Smaug can actually fly. Super light bones or whatever.)
d) hot air rises and creates lift
If the dragon can produce a large quantity/sizable blast of extremely high heat, could it be useful to the dragon for it napalm/torch the ground beneath it as it was taking off, in order to create additional lift for itself? Or would the effect of doing this be so negligible that it wouldn't be worth it to bother?
dragons flight
dragons flight
asked 2 days ago
MarielSMarielS
3108
New contributor
MarielS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
MarielSMarielS
3108
New contributor
MarielS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
MarielSMarielS
3108
New contributor
MarielS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
MarielSMarielS
3108
asked 2 days ago
MarielSMarielS
3108
3108
New contributor
MarielS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
MarielS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
MarielS is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
4
$begingroup$
This isn't quite what you're asking, so I'm leaving it as a comment rather than an answer, but there was a pseudo-documentary (possibly this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dragon_(2004_film) ) about dragons (the framing device being that it was a real documentary made in a world where they existed) that discussed something similar. Its dragons didn't fly by using their fire breath to heat air; rather, they had a swim bladder-like organ filled with hydrogen that was used to both maintain buoyancy for flight and to fuel the fire breath.
$endgroup$
– Ray
2 days ago
$begingroup$
"in order to create additional lift for itself?" quite the contrary. As the air temperature increases the amount of lift wings can produce is reduced due to the lower pressure.
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace: very much depends on the mode of flight and nature of the hot air. Birds use thermals to gain height all the time.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Indeed, but that does not mean that their wings produce more lift than in cold air
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace Guess it depends on how technical you are with language. If by ‘lift’ you mean the casual ‘upward force applied to the wings’ then you have got more in an updraft caused by hot air. If you mean the more technically correct ‘upward force caused by fluid flow over and under the wing in air of homogeneous temperature’ then you have less.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
This isn't quite what you're asking, so I'm leaving it as a comment rather than an answer, but there was a pseudo-documentary (possibly this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dragon_(2004_film) ) about dragons (the framing device being that it was a real documentary made in a world where they existed) that discussed something similar. Its dragons didn't fly by using their fire breath to heat air; rather, they had a swim bladder-like organ filled with hydrogen that was used to both maintain buoyancy for flight and to fuel the fire breath.
$endgroup$
– Ray
2 days ago
$begingroup$
"in order to create additional lift for itself?" quite the contrary. As the air temperature increases the amount of lift wings can produce is reduced due to the lower pressure.
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace: very much depends on the mode of flight and nature of the hot air. Birds use thermals to gain height all the time.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Indeed, but that does not mean that their wings produce more lift than in cold air
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace Guess it depends on how technical you are with language. If by ‘lift’ you mean the casual ‘upward force applied to the wings’ then you have got more in an updraft caused by hot air. If you mean the more technically correct ‘upward force caused by fluid flow over and under the wing in air of homogeneous temperature’ then you have less.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
4
4
$begingroup$
This isn't quite what you're asking, so I'm leaving it as a comment rather than an answer, but there was a pseudo-documentary (possibly this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dragon_(2004_film) ) about dragons (the framing device being that it was a real documentary made in a world where they existed) that discussed something similar. Its dragons didn't fly by using their fire breath to heat air; rather, they had a swim bladder-like organ filled with hydrogen that was used to both maintain buoyancy for flight and to fuel the fire breath.
$endgroup$
– Ray
2 days ago
$begingroup$
This isn't quite what you're asking, so I'm leaving it as a comment rather than an answer, but there was a pseudo-documentary (possibly this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dragon_(2004_film) ) about dragons (the framing device being that it was a real documentary made in a world where they existed) that discussed something similar. Its dragons didn't fly by using their fire breath to heat air; rather, they had a swim bladder-like organ filled with hydrogen that was used to both maintain buoyancy for flight and to fuel the fire breath.
$endgroup$
– Ray
2 days ago
$begingroup$
"in order to create additional lift for itself?" quite the contrary. As the air temperature increases the amount of lift wings can produce is reduced due to the lower pressure.
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
$begingroup$
"in order to create additional lift for itself?" quite the contrary. As the air temperature increases the amount of lift wings can produce is reduced due to the lower pressure.
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace: very much depends on the mode of flight and nature of the hot air. Birds use thermals to gain height all the time.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace: very much depends on the mode of flight and nature of the hot air. Birds use thermals to gain height all the time.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Indeed, but that does not mean that their wings produce more lift than in cold air
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Indeed, but that does not mean that their wings produce more lift than in cold air
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace Guess it depends on how technical you are with language. If by ‘lift’ you mean the casual ‘upward force applied to the wings’ then you have got more in an updraft caused by hot air. If you mean the more technically correct ‘upward force caused by fluid flow over and under the wing in air of homogeneous temperature’ then you have less.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace Guess it depends on how technical you are with language. If by ‘lift’ you mean the casual ‘upward force applied to the wings’ then you have got more in an updraft caused by hot air. If you mean the more technically correct ‘upward force caused by fluid flow over and under the wing in air of homogeneous temperature’ then you have less.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Unlikely if not impossible. The lift created by heat (pressure differences) is different than the lift created by the wings (mechanical). The "help" given by one is unlikely to help the other - and the difference would likely be negligible.
Mechanical Lift
Lift as a mechanical force is created by motion. Here is a good explanation, and Wikipedia has a decent article on lift. You can read more about how birds create lift here.
Pressure Lift
Lift by pressure differences is how hot balloons work - but this is because of the density of the balloon (here, dragon) in relation to the surrounding air. Unless the dragon could contain the heat entirely beneath it, the heat would dissipate very rapidly - especially if it is significantly hotter than the air around it. This would make for a very bad way to create lift.
Cannons
I suppose, in theory, if a dragon was stuck upside-down inside a pipe, then a good heave might push it out. But this would be more like how cannons and firearms work than any concept of actual lift. In such a scenario, the dragon would be "pushed" out, and could then flap it's wings - assuming that it could create enough of an explosion (fireball) to force itself loose.
answered 2 days ago
cegfaultcegfault
1,572612
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Fascinating, thanks. I just got a wonderful image of loading tiny dragons upside down into launch tubes and watching them blast themselves backwards out again like little rockets. That mental image in going to feed my happy for a while :D
$endgroup$
– MarielS
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
In fact, if you ask any pilot who's had to take-off from McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas during high summer, they'll tell you that hot air is horrible for lift-off because it causes the molecules to move further apart, meaning there's fewer molecules under the wings to encourage lift. I've seen some planes leaving McCarran in August that I wondered would get off the ground before the end of the runway.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thermal Soaring
I think its possible:
- Birds like raptors (eagles/hawks etc), vultures, and storks can gain altitude without flapping by hopping a ride on a rising column of warm air. This is called Thermal Soaring.
- We assume (according to your point c) that dragons can fly reasonably well, but can they soar? Soaring ability in dragons seams likely, as dragons are typically thought of as carnivores which means they have to fly around looking for prey to catch (like eagles/hawks) or fly around looking for dead prey (vultures/condors). All that flying around means you need to be energy efficient and be able to soar. If dragons are capable of soaring in general, then they should be capable of thermal soaring as well.
- According to my googling, wildfires can cause thermal columns.
Thus, the dragon starts a wildfire, takes off for flight (likely by jumping up like giant pterosaurs) and flaps a few times to get in the air over the wildfire, and then can thermal soar up high.
answered 2 days ago
B.KenobiB.Kenobi
3387
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
When Nurmberg was bombed during WWII the resulting tempest of fire lifted up in the air wooden beams, as reported by some bombers crew. And wooden beams have no wings. So definitely a dragon can use the mechanism you suggest.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Yes. When you see a vulture circling, it is typically doing that to stay close to a rising thermal. Glider pilots use the same technique to gain altitude even though they have no power. A good pilot will feel a slight lift on one wing and then move in that direction to get into the updraft (e.g. rising from a large parking lot on a sunny day). This technique allows them to go to great heights and to stay aloft for hours. Dragons usually live near volcanoes, so they should have no problem generating altitude before departing.
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 days ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "579"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
MarielS is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142989%2fcould-a-dragon-use-hot-air-to-help-it-take-off%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Unlikely if not impossible. The lift created by heat (pressure differences) is different than the lift created by the wings (mechanical). The "help" given by one is unlikely to help the other - and the difference would likely be negligible.
Mechanical Lift
Lift as a mechanical force is created by motion. Here is a good explanation, and Wikipedia has a decent article on lift. You can read more about how birds create lift here.
Pressure Lift
Lift by pressure differences is how hot balloons work - but this is because of the density of the balloon (here, dragon) in relation to the surrounding air. Unless the dragon could contain the heat entirely beneath it, the heat would dissipate very rapidly - especially if it is significantly hotter than the air around it. This would make for a very bad way to create lift.
Cannons
I suppose, in theory, if a dragon was stuck upside-down inside a pipe, then a good heave might push it out. But this would be more like how cannons and firearms work than any concept of actual lift. In such a scenario, the dragon would be "pushed" out, and could then flap it's wings - assuming that it could create enough of an explosion (fireball) to force itself loose.
answered 2 days ago
cegfaultcegfault
1,572612
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Fascinating, thanks. I just got a wonderful image of loading tiny dragons upside down into launch tubes and watching them blast themselves backwards out again like little rockets. That mental image in going to feed my happy for a while :D
$endgroup$
– MarielS
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
In fact, if you ask any pilot who's had to take-off from McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas during high summer, they'll tell you that hot air is horrible for lift-off because it causes the molecules to move further apart, meaning there's fewer molecules under the wings to encourage lift. I've seen some planes leaving McCarran in August that I wondered would get off the ground before the end of the runway.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Unlikely if not impossible. The lift created by heat (pressure differences) is different than the lift created by the wings (mechanical). The "help" given by one is unlikely to help the other - and the difference would likely be negligible.
Mechanical Lift
Lift as a mechanical force is created by motion. Here is a good explanation, and Wikipedia has a decent article on lift. You can read more about how birds create lift here.
Pressure Lift
Lift by pressure differences is how hot balloons work - but this is because of the density of the balloon (here, dragon) in relation to the surrounding air. Unless the dragon could contain the heat entirely beneath it, the heat would dissipate very rapidly - especially if it is significantly hotter than the air around it. This would make for a very bad way to create lift.
Cannons
I suppose, in theory, if a dragon was stuck upside-down inside a pipe, then a good heave might push it out. But this would be more like how cannons and firearms work than any concept of actual lift. In such a scenario, the dragon would be "pushed" out, and could then flap it's wings - assuming that it could create enough of an explosion (fireball) to force itself loose.
answered 2 days ago
cegfaultcegfault
1,572612
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Fascinating, thanks. I just got a wonderful image of loading tiny dragons upside down into launch tubes and watching them blast themselves backwards out again like little rockets. That mental image in going to feed my happy for a while :D
$endgroup$
– MarielS
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
In fact, if you ask any pilot who's had to take-off from McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas during high summer, they'll tell you that hot air is horrible for lift-off because it causes the molecules to move further apart, meaning there's fewer molecules under the wings to encourage lift. I've seen some planes leaving McCarran in August that I wondered would get off the ground before the end of the runway.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Unlikely if not impossible. The lift created by heat (pressure differences) is different than the lift created by the wings (mechanical). The "help" given by one is unlikely to help the other - and the difference would likely be negligible.
Mechanical Lift
Lift as a mechanical force is created by motion. Here is a good explanation, and Wikipedia has a decent article on lift. You can read more about how birds create lift here.
Pressure Lift
Lift by pressure differences is how hot balloons work - but this is because of the density of the balloon (here, dragon) in relation to the surrounding air. Unless the dragon could contain the heat entirely beneath it, the heat would dissipate very rapidly - especially if it is significantly hotter than the air around it. This would make for a very bad way to create lift.
Cannons
I suppose, in theory, if a dragon was stuck upside-down inside a pipe, then a good heave might push it out. But this would be more like how cannons and firearms work than any concept of actual lift. In such a scenario, the dragon would be "pushed" out, and could then flap it's wings - assuming that it could create enough of an explosion (fireball) to force itself loose.
answered 2 days ago
cegfaultcegfault
1,572612
$endgroup$
Unlikely if not impossible. The lift created by heat (pressure differences) is different than the lift created by the wings (mechanical). The "help" given by one is unlikely to help the other - and the difference would likely be negligible.
Mechanical Lift
Lift as a mechanical force is created by motion. Here is a good explanation, and Wikipedia has a decent article on lift. You can read more about how birds create lift here.
Pressure Lift
Lift by pressure differences is how hot balloons work - but this is because of the density of the balloon (here, dragon) in relation to the surrounding air. Unless the dragon could contain the heat entirely beneath it, the heat would dissipate very rapidly - especially if it is significantly hotter than the air around it. This would make for a very bad way to create lift.
Cannons
I suppose, in theory, if a dragon was stuck upside-down inside a pipe, then a good heave might push it out. But this would be more like how cannons and firearms work than any concept of actual lift. In such a scenario, the dragon would be "pushed" out, and could then flap it's wings - assuming that it could create enough of an explosion (fireball) to force itself loose.
answered 2 days ago
cegfaultcegfault
1,572612
answered 2 days ago
cegfaultcegfault
1,572612
answered 2 days ago
cegfaultcegfault
1,572612
answered 2 days ago
cegfaultcegfault
1,572612
1,572612
3
$begingroup$
Fascinating, thanks. I just got a wonderful image of loading tiny dragons upside down into launch tubes and watching them blast themselves backwards out again like little rockets. That mental image in going to feed my happy for a while :D
$endgroup$
– MarielS
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
In fact, if you ask any pilot who's had to take-off from McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas during high summer, they'll tell you that hot air is horrible for lift-off because it causes the molecules to move further apart, meaning there's fewer molecules under the wings to encourage lift. I've seen some planes leaving McCarran in August that I wondered would get off the ground before the end of the runway.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
Fascinating, thanks. I just got a wonderful image of loading tiny dragons upside down into launch tubes and watching them blast themselves backwards out again like little rockets. That mental image in going to feed my happy for a while :D
$endgroup$
– MarielS
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
In fact, if you ask any pilot who's had to take-off from McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas during high summer, they'll tell you that hot air is horrible for lift-off because it causes the molecules to move further apart, meaning there's fewer molecules under the wings to encourage lift. I've seen some planes leaving McCarran in August that I wondered would get off the ground before the end of the runway.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Fascinating, thanks. I just got a wonderful image of loading tiny dragons upside down into launch tubes and watching them blast themselves backwards out again like little rockets. That mental image in going to feed my happy for a while :D
$endgroup$
– MarielS
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Fascinating, thanks. I just got a wonderful image of loading tiny dragons upside down into launch tubes and watching them blast themselves backwards out again like little rockets. That mental image in going to feed my happy for a while :D
$endgroup$
– MarielS
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
In fact, if you ask any pilot who's had to take-off from McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas during high summer, they'll tell you that hot air is horrible for lift-off because it causes the molecules to move further apart, meaning there's fewer molecules under the wings to encourage lift. I've seen some planes leaving McCarran in August that I wondered would get off the ground before the end of the runway.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
$begingroup$
In fact, if you ask any pilot who's had to take-off from McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas during high summer, they'll tell you that hot air is horrible for lift-off because it causes the molecules to move further apart, meaning there's fewer molecules under the wings to encourage lift. I've seen some planes leaving McCarran in August that I wondered would get off the ground before the end of the runway.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thermal Soaring
I think its possible:
- Birds like raptors (eagles/hawks etc), vultures, and storks can gain altitude without flapping by hopping a ride on a rising column of warm air. This is called Thermal Soaring.
- We assume (according to your point c) that dragons can fly reasonably well, but can they soar? Soaring ability in dragons seams likely, as dragons are typically thought of as carnivores which means they have to fly around looking for prey to catch (like eagles/hawks) or fly around looking for dead prey (vultures/condors). All that flying around means you need to be energy efficient and be able to soar. If dragons are capable of soaring in general, then they should be capable of thermal soaring as well.
- According to my googling, wildfires can cause thermal columns.
Thus, the dragon starts a wildfire, takes off for flight (likely by jumping up like giant pterosaurs) and flaps a few times to get in the air over the wildfire, and then can thermal soar up high.
answered 2 days ago
B.KenobiB.Kenobi
3387
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
When Nurmberg was bombed during WWII the resulting tempest of fire lifted up in the air wooden beams, as reported by some bombers crew. And wooden beams have no wings. So definitely a dragon can use the mechanism you suggest.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Yes. When you see a vulture circling, it is typically doing that to stay close to a rising thermal. Glider pilots use the same technique to gain altitude even though they have no power. A good pilot will feel a slight lift on one wing and then move in that direction to get into the updraft (e.g. rising from a large parking lot on a sunny day). This technique allows them to go to great heights and to stay aloft for hours. Dragons usually live near volcanoes, so they should have no problem generating altitude before departing.
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thermal Soaring
I think its possible:
- Birds like raptors (eagles/hawks etc), vultures, and storks can gain altitude without flapping by hopping a ride on a rising column of warm air. This is called Thermal Soaring.
- We assume (according to your point c) that dragons can fly reasonably well, but can they soar? Soaring ability in dragons seams likely, as dragons are typically thought of as carnivores which means they have to fly around looking for prey to catch (like eagles/hawks) or fly around looking for dead prey (vultures/condors). All that flying around means you need to be energy efficient and be able to soar. If dragons are capable of soaring in general, then they should be capable of thermal soaring as well.
- According to my googling, wildfires can cause thermal columns.
Thus, the dragon starts a wildfire, takes off for flight (likely by jumping up like giant pterosaurs) and flaps a few times to get in the air over the wildfire, and then can thermal soar up high.
answered 2 days ago
B.KenobiB.Kenobi
3387
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
When Nurmberg was bombed during WWII the resulting tempest of fire lifted up in the air wooden beams, as reported by some bombers crew. And wooden beams have no wings. So definitely a dragon can use the mechanism you suggest.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Yes. When you see a vulture circling, it is typically doing that to stay close to a rising thermal. Glider pilots use the same technique to gain altitude even though they have no power. A good pilot will feel a slight lift on one wing and then move in that direction to get into the updraft (e.g. rising from a large parking lot on a sunny day). This technique allows them to go to great heights and to stay aloft for hours. Dragons usually live near volcanoes, so they should have no problem generating altitude before departing.
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thermal Soaring
I think its possible:
- Birds like raptors (eagles/hawks etc), vultures, and storks can gain altitude without flapping by hopping a ride on a rising column of warm air. This is called Thermal Soaring.
- We assume (according to your point c) that dragons can fly reasonably well, but can they soar? Soaring ability in dragons seams likely, as dragons are typically thought of as carnivores which means they have to fly around looking for prey to catch (like eagles/hawks) or fly around looking for dead prey (vultures/condors). All that flying around means you need to be energy efficient and be able to soar. If dragons are capable of soaring in general, then they should be capable of thermal soaring as well.
- According to my googling, wildfires can cause thermal columns.
Thus, the dragon starts a wildfire, takes off for flight (likely by jumping up like giant pterosaurs) and flaps a few times to get in the air over the wildfire, and then can thermal soar up high.
answered 2 days ago
B.KenobiB.Kenobi
3387
$endgroup$
Thermal Soaring
I think its possible:
- Birds like raptors (eagles/hawks etc), vultures, and storks can gain altitude without flapping by hopping a ride on a rising column of warm air. This is called Thermal Soaring.
- We assume (according to your point c) that dragons can fly reasonably well, but can they soar? Soaring ability in dragons seams likely, as dragons are typically thought of as carnivores which means they have to fly around looking for prey to catch (like eagles/hawks) or fly around looking for dead prey (vultures/condors). All that flying around means you need to be energy efficient and be able to soar. If dragons are capable of soaring in general, then they should be capable of thermal soaring as well.
- According to my googling, wildfires can cause thermal columns.
Thus, the dragon starts a wildfire, takes off for flight (likely by jumping up like giant pterosaurs) and flaps a few times to get in the air over the wildfire, and then can thermal soar up high.
answered 2 days ago
B.KenobiB.Kenobi
3387
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
B.KenobiB.Kenobi
3387
answered 2 days ago
B.KenobiB.Kenobi
3387
answered 2 days ago
B.KenobiB.Kenobi
3387
3387
4
$begingroup$
When Nurmberg was bombed during WWII the resulting tempest of fire lifted up in the air wooden beams, as reported by some bombers crew. And wooden beams have no wings. So definitely a dragon can use the mechanism you suggest.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Yes. When you see a vulture circling, it is typically doing that to stay close to a rising thermal. Glider pilots use the same technique to gain altitude even though they have no power. A good pilot will feel a slight lift on one wing and then move in that direction to get into the updraft (e.g. rising from a large parking lot on a sunny day). This technique allows them to go to great heights and to stay aloft for hours. Dragons usually live near volcanoes, so they should have no problem generating altitude before departing.
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 days ago
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
When Nurmberg was bombed during WWII the resulting tempest of fire lifted up in the air wooden beams, as reported by some bombers crew. And wooden beams have no wings. So definitely a dragon can use the mechanism you suggest.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Yes. When you see a vulture circling, it is typically doing that to stay close to a rising thermal. Glider pilots use the same technique to gain altitude even though they have no power. A good pilot will feel a slight lift on one wing and then move in that direction to get into the updraft (e.g. rising from a large parking lot on a sunny day). This technique allows them to go to great heights and to stay aloft for hours. Dragons usually live near volcanoes, so they should have no problem generating altitude before departing.
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 days ago
4
4
$begingroup$
When Nurmberg was bombed during WWII the resulting tempest of fire lifted up in the air wooden beams, as reported by some bombers crew. And wooden beams have no wings. So definitely a dragon can use the mechanism you suggest.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
2 days ago
$begingroup$
When Nurmberg was bombed during WWII the resulting tempest of fire lifted up in the air wooden beams, as reported by some bombers crew. And wooden beams have no wings. So definitely a dragon can use the mechanism you suggest.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch♦
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Yes. When you see a vulture circling, it is typically doing that to stay close to a rising thermal. Glider pilots use the same technique to gain altitude even though they have no power. A good pilot will feel a slight lift on one wing and then move in that direction to get into the updraft (e.g. rising from a large parking lot on a sunny day). This technique allows them to go to great heights and to stay aloft for hours. Dragons usually live near volcanoes, so they should have no problem generating altitude before departing.
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Yes. When you see a vulture circling, it is typically doing that to stay close to a rising thermal. Glider pilots use the same technique to gain altitude even though they have no power. A good pilot will feel a slight lift on one wing and then move in that direction to get into the updraft (e.g. rising from a large parking lot on a sunny day). This technique allows them to go to great heights and to stay aloft for hours. Dragons usually live near volcanoes, so they should have no problem generating altitude before departing.
$endgroup$
– Ray Butterworth
2 days ago
add a comment |
MarielS is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
MarielS is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
MarielS is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
MarielS is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142989%2fcould-a-dragon-use-hot-air-to-help-it-take-off%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
4
$begingroup$
This isn't quite what you're asking, so I'm leaving it as a comment rather than an answer, but there was a pseudo-documentary (possibly this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dragon_(2004_film) ) about dragons (the framing device being that it was a real documentary made in a world where they existed) that discussed something similar. Its dragons didn't fly by using their fire breath to heat air; rather, they had a swim bladder-like organ filled with hydrogen that was used to both maintain buoyancy for flight and to fuel the fire breath.
$endgroup$
– Ray
2 days ago
$begingroup$
"in order to create additional lift for itself?" quite the contrary. As the air temperature increases the amount of lift wings can produce is reduced due to the lower pressure.
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace: very much depends on the mode of flight and nature of the hot air. Birds use thermals to gain height all the time.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Indeed, but that does not mean that their wings produce more lift than in cold air
$endgroup$
– DeepSpace
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@DeepSpace Guess it depends on how technical you are with language. If by ‘lift’ you mean the casual ‘upward force applied to the wings’ then you have got more in an updraft caused by hot air. If you mean the more technically correct ‘upward force caused by fluid flow over and under the wing in air of homogeneous temperature’ then you have less.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago