Why not take a picture of a closer black hole? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) What stellar content do we want to share with Twitter?Why didn't the Event Horizon Telescope team mention Sagittarius A*?Can A Black Hole Exist?Star versus Black HoleCan things move faster than light inside the event horizon of a black hole?What conditions would lead to this event around the black hole in the Pictor A galaxy?Why do “they” portray colliding black holes like that?Black Hole growthWhat will happen to the shape of a galaxy when a super massive black hole lying in its center dies(evaporates out)?Black hole, escape velocity, going up?Shouldn't we not be able to see some black holes?Is this a black hole?
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Why not take a picture of a closer black hole?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
What stellar content do we want to share with Twitter?Why didn't the Event Horizon Telescope team mention Sagittarius A*?Can A Black Hole Exist?Star versus Black HoleCan things move faster than light inside the event horizon of a black hole?What conditions would lead to this event around the black hole in the Pictor A galaxy?Why do “they” portray colliding black holes like that?Black Hole growthWhat will happen to the shape of a galaxy when a super massive black hole lying in its center dies(evaporates out)?Black hole, escape velocity, going up?Shouldn't we not be able to see some black holes?Is this a black hole?
$begingroup$
There are closer galaxies than Messier 87 for sure, even ours! It sparked my curiosity that they went with one 53 million light years away. Is there a reason for this?
black-hole supermassive-black-hole event-horizon-telescope
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are closer galaxies than Messier 87 for sure, even ours! It sparked my curiosity that they went with one 53 million light years away. Is there a reason for this?
black-hole supermassive-black-hole event-horizon-telescope
New contributor
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
Apr 11 at 17:18
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53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
Apr 12 at 3:15
$begingroup$
I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
$endgroup$
– Williham Totland
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
$endgroup$
– Wayfaring Stranger
13 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are closer galaxies than Messier 87 for sure, even ours! It sparked my curiosity that they went with one 53 million light years away. Is there a reason for this?
black-hole supermassive-black-hole event-horizon-telescope
New contributor
$endgroup$
There are closer galaxies than Messier 87 for sure, even ours! It sparked my curiosity that they went with one 53 million light years away. Is there a reason for this?
black-hole supermassive-black-hole event-horizon-telescope
black-hole supermassive-black-hole event-horizon-telescope
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked Apr 10 at 23:44
MorganMorgan
378126
378126
New contributor
New contributor
4
$begingroup$
Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
Apr 11 at 17:18
$begingroup$
53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
Apr 12 at 3:15
$begingroup$
I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
$endgroup$
– Williham Totland
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
$endgroup$
– Wayfaring Stranger
13 hours ago
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
Apr 11 at 17:18
$begingroup$
53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
Apr 12 at 3:15
$begingroup$
I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
$endgroup$
– Williham Totland
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
$endgroup$
– Wayfaring Stranger
13 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
Apr 11 at 17:18
$begingroup$
Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
Apr 11 at 17:18
$begingroup$
53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
Apr 12 at 3:15
$begingroup$
53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
Apr 12 at 3:15
$begingroup$
I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
$endgroup$
– Williham Totland
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
$endgroup$
– Williham Totland
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
$endgroup$
– Wayfaring Stranger
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
$endgroup$
– Wayfaring Stranger
13 hours ago
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.
The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.
A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.
A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.
There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.
Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.
Comparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes
And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.
$endgroup$
39
$begingroup$
Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Florin Andrei
Apr 11 at 4:20
4
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 9:16
62
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Konrad Rudolph
Apr 11 at 11:16
10
$begingroup$
@KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 12:18
3
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
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– JBentley
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
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There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:
- Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.
- Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
$endgroup$
– Chappo
Apr 11 at 7:40
2
$begingroup$
Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
$endgroup$
– Barmar
Apr 11 at 18:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:
But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.
— The Deccan Herald
New contributor
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3
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That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
$endgroup$
– Sneftel
2 days ago
8
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@Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
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– Michael
2 days ago
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So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
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– David Tonhofer
yesterday
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Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:
From Space.com
The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.
Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.
From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.
...
And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
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active
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active
oldest
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$begingroup$
I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.
The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.
A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.
A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.
There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.
Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.
Comparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes
And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.
$endgroup$
39
$begingroup$
Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Florin Andrei
Apr 11 at 4:20
4
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 9:16
62
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Konrad Rudolph
Apr 11 at 11:16
10
$begingroup$
@KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 12:18
3
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.
The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.
A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.
A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.
There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.
Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.
Comparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes
And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.
$endgroup$
39
$begingroup$
Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Florin Andrei
Apr 11 at 4:20
4
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 9:16
62
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Konrad Rudolph
Apr 11 at 11:16
10
$begingroup$
@KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 12:18
3
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.
The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.
A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.
A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.
There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.
Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.
Comparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes
And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.
$endgroup$
I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.
The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.
A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.
A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.
There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.
Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.
Comparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes
And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.
edited 2 days ago
answered Apr 11 at 0:23
IngolifsIngolifs
2,0461921
2,0461921
39
$begingroup$
Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Florin Andrei
Apr 11 at 4:20
4
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 9:16
62
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Konrad Rudolph
Apr 11 at 11:16
10
$begingroup$
@KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 12:18
3
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
39
$begingroup$
Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Florin Andrei
Apr 11 at 4:20
4
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 9:16
62
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Konrad Rudolph
Apr 11 at 11:16
10
$begingroup$
@KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 12:18
3
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
39
39
$begingroup$
Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Florin Andrei
Apr 11 at 4:20
$begingroup$
Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Florin Andrei
Apr 11 at 4:20
4
4
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 9:16
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 9:16
62
62
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Konrad Rudolph
Apr 11 at 11:16
$begingroup$
@FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
$endgroup$
– Konrad Rudolph
Apr 11 at 11:16
10
10
$begingroup$
@KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 12:18
$begingroup$
@KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
$endgroup$
– pela
Apr 11 at 12:18
3
3
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
$endgroup$
– JBentley
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:
- Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.
- Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.
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3
$begingroup$
Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
$endgroup$
– Chappo
Apr 11 at 7:40
2
$begingroup$
Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
$endgroup$
– Barmar
Apr 11 at 18:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:
- Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.
- Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
$endgroup$
– Chappo
Apr 11 at 7:40
2
$begingroup$
Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
$endgroup$
– Barmar
Apr 11 at 18:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:
- Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.
- Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.
$endgroup$
There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:
- Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.
- Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.
edited Apr 11 at 5:27
Cendolt
677
677
answered Apr 11 at 0:55
cmscms
52615
52615
3
$begingroup$
Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
$endgroup$
– Chappo
Apr 11 at 7:40
2
$begingroup$
Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
$endgroup$
– Barmar
Apr 11 at 18:38
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
$endgroup$
– Chappo
Apr 11 at 7:40
2
$begingroup$
Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
$endgroup$
– Barmar
Apr 11 at 18:38
3
3
$begingroup$
Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
$endgroup$
– Chappo
Apr 11 at 7:40
$begingroup$
Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
$endgroup$
– Chappo
Apr 11 at 7:40
2
2
$begingroup$
Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
$endgroup$
– Barmar
Apr 11 at 18:38
$begingroup$
Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
$endgroup$
– Barmar
Apr 11 at 18:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:
But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.
— The Deccan Herald
New contributor
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
$endgroup$
– Sneftel
2 days ago
8
$begingroup$
@Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
$endgroup$
– Michael
2 days ago
$begingroup$
So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
$begingroup$
Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:
But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.
— The Deccan Herald
New contributor
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
$endgroup$
– Sneftel
2 days ago
8
$begingroup$
@Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
$endgroup$
– Michael
2 days ago
$begingroup$
So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
$begingroup$
Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:
But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.
— The Deccan Herald
New contributor
$endgroup$
As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:
But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.
— The Deccan Herald
New contributor
New contributor
answered Apr 11 at 9:10
user24582user24582
2812
2812
New contributor
New contributor
3
$begingroup$
That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
$endgroup$
– Sneftel
2 days ago
8
$begingroup$
@Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
$endgroup$
– Michael
2 days ago
$begingroup$
So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
$begingroup$
Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
$endgroup$
– Sneftel
2 days ago
8
$begingroup$
@Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
$endgroup$
– Michael
2 days ago
$begingroup$
So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
$begingroup$
Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
3
3
$begingroup$
That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
$endgroup$
– Sneftel
2 days ago
$begingroup$
That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
$endgroup$
– Sneftel
2 days ago
8
8
$begingroup$
@Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
$endgroup$
– Michael
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
$endgroup$
– Michael
2 days ago
$begingroup$
So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
$begingroup$
So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
$begingroup$
Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
$begingroup$
Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
$endgroup$
– David Tonhofer
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:
From Space.com
The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.
Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.
From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.
...
And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:
From Space.com
The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.
Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.
From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.
...
And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:
From Space.com
The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.
Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.
From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.
...
And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.
$endgroup$
Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:
From Space.com
The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.
Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.
From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.
...
And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.
edited Apr 11 at 14:55
answered Apr 11 at 14:48
BruceWayneBruceWayne
25818
25818
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.
$endgroup$
The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.
answered yesterday
Danny FDanny F
1234
1234
add a comment |
add a comment |
Morgan is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Morgan is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Morgan is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Morgan is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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$begingroup$
Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
Apr 11 at 17:18
$begingroup$
53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
Apr 12 at 3:15
$begingroup$
I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
$endgroup$
– Williham Totland
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
$endgroup$
– Wayfaring Stranger
13 hours ago