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If a character with the Alert feat rolls a crit fail on their Perception check, are they surprised?

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12

$begingroup$

A Druid in my campaign has the Alert feat, which stops her from being surprised.

If she rolls a critical failure on her Perception check, would:

1. She get surprised because she crit-failed?




2. The Alert feat negate that?

I'm leaning more toward it's "up to the DM," but I wanted to get a second perspective on this.

dnd-5e feats skills critical-fail

share|improve this question

edited yesterday

V2Blast

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asked yesterday

tbrotbro

613

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• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
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  – V2Blast
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Possible duplicate of Is a critical failure on a natural 1 a rule or house rule?
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  see also rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/93831 , rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/135860
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @enkryptor Don't think it's a dupe, this one has the feat as an added consideration.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @KorvinStarmast the feat is irrelevant. The question basically asks "does the feat beat crit fail", but there is no such thing as "crit fail" in 5e. This would be valid for any "does X beat crit fail" question.
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  20 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 1 more comment

12

$begingroup$

A Druid in my campaign has the Alert feat, which stops her from being surprised.

If she rolls a critical failure on her Perception check, would:

1. She get surprised because she crit-failed?




2. The Alert feat negate that?

I'm leaning more toward it's "up to the DM," but I wanted to get a second perspective on this.

dnd-5e feats skills critical-fail

share|improve this question

edited yesterday

V2Blast

25.6k488158

asked yesterday

tbrotbro

613

New contributor

tbro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
  $endgroup$
  – V2Blast
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Possible duplicate of Is a critical failure on a natural 1 a rule or house rule?
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  see also rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/93831 , rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/135860
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @enkryptor Don't think it's a dupe, this one has the feat as an added consideration.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @KorvinStarmast the feat is irrelevant. The question basically asks "does the feat beat crit fail", but there is no such thing as "crit fail" in 5e. This would be valid for any "does X beat crit fail" question.
  $endgroup$
  – enkryptor
  20 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 1 more comment

$begingroup$

A Druid in my campaign has the Alert feat, which stops her from being surprised.

If she rolls a critical failure on her Perception check, would:

1. She get surprised because she crit-failed?




2. The Alert feat negate that?

I'm leaning more toward it's "up to the DM," but I wanted to get a second perspective on this.

dnd-5e feats skills critical-fail

share|improve this question

edited yesterday

V2Blast

25.6k488158

asked yesterday

tbrotbro

613

New contributor

tbro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

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share|improve this question

edited yesterday

V2Blast

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asked yesterday

tbrotbro

613

New contributor

tbro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited yesterday

V2Blast

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asked yesterday

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edited yesterday

V2Blast

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edited yesterday

V2Blast

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asked yesterday

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41

$begingroup$

2. The Alert feat negates surprise

Because the Alert feat (PHB, p. 165) states:

You can't be surprised while you are conscious

A character with the Alert feat cannot be surprised while they are conscious.

"Surprised" has a clear mechanical meaning.

If a character is surprised, they cannot act on their first turn of combat, and after their first turn, they are no longer surprised.

A character with the Alert feat who rolls a low perception check can be unprepared, but never surprised. Perhaps they don't have enough time to wake all their allies before combat starts or they don't have time to get into position or take the action required to don a shield (before combat). But they can never be "surprised".

Rules as Written, critical failures are only for attack rolls.

It is a common house rule that rolling a 1 on a d20 results in a critical fail, whatever the context - but there is no rule in D&D 5e that states that is the case for anything but attack rolls, where the result is simply "you miss".

---

Notes:

1. The optional rule on page 242 of the DMG ("Critical Success or
   Failure") doesn't explicitly state that a 1 rolled on an ability
   check overrides a feat's features.


2. While it is not called "critical fail" or "critical success" the
   death saving throw is a unique case in the rules where the
   mechanics of a benefit, or harm, accrues to a saving throw coming up
   20 or 1. (On a 20 you have 1 HP and are no longer unconscious, on a
   1 you get two fails).

share|improve this answer

edited 16 hours ago

KorvinStarmast

82.5k20257444

answered yesterday

Blake SteelBlake Steel

3,9981948

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Crit fails (and successes) are also for death saves.
  $endgroup$
  – Nacht
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Nacht I added your point in as a note. Blake, I hope you approve. If not, by all means revert.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Personally, I feel that " critical failures are only for attack rolls." should be the main point here, as it resolves any other confusion.
  $endgroup$
  – goodguy5
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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41

$begingroup$

2. The Alert feat negates surprise

Because the Alert feat (PHB, p. 165) states:

You can't be surprised while you are conscious

A character with the Alert feat cannot be surprised while they are conscious.

"Surprised" has a clear mechanical meaning.

If a character is surprised, they cannot act on their first turn of combat, and after their first turn, they are no longer surprised.

A character with the Alert feat who rolls a low perception check can be unprepared, but never surprised. Perhaps they don't have enough time to wake all their allies before combat starts or they don't have time to get into position or take the action required to don a shield (before combat). But they can never be "surprised".

Rules as Written, critical failures are only for attack rolls.

It is a common house rule that rolling a 1 on a d20 results in a critical fail, whatever the context - but there is no rule in D&D 5e that states that is the case for anything but attack rolls, where the result is simply "you miss".

---

Notes:

1. The optional rule on page 242 of the DMG ("Critical Success or
   Failure") doesn't explicitly state that a 1 rolled on an ability
   check overrides a feat's features.


2. While it is not called "critical fail" or "critical success" the
   death saving throw is a unique case in the rules where the
   mechanics of a benefit, or harm, accrues to a saving throw coming up
   20 or 1. (On a 20 you have 1 HP and are no longer unconscious, on a
   1 you get two fails).

share|improve this answer

edited 16 hours ago

KorvinStarmast

82.5k20257444

answered yesterday

Blake SteelBlake Steel

3,9981948

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Crit fails (and successes) are also for death saves.
  $endgroup$
  – Nacht
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Nacht I added your point in as a note. Blake, I hope you approve. If not, by all means revert.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Personally, I feel that " critical failures are only for attack rolls." should be the main point here, as it resolves any other confusion.
  $endgroup$
  – goodguy5
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

41

$begingroup$

2. The Alert feat negates surprise

Because the Alert feat (PHB, p. 165) states:

You can't be surprised while you are conscious

A character with the Alert feat cannot be surprised while they are conscious.

"Surprised" has a clear mechanical meaning.

If a character is surprised, they cannot act on their first turn of combat, and after their first turn, they are no longer surprised.

A character with the Alert feat who rolls a low perception check can be unprepared, but never surprised. Perhaps they don't have enough time to wake all their allies before combat starts or they don't have time to get into position or take the action required to don a shield (before combat). But they can never be "surprised".

Rules as Written, critical failures are only for attack rolls.

It is a common house rule that rolling a 1 on a d20 results in a critical fail, whatever the context - but there is no rule in D&D 5e that states that is the case for anything but attack rolls, where the result is simply "you miss".

---

Notes:

1. The optional rule on page 242 of the DMG ("Critical Success or
   Failure") doesn't explicitly state that a 1 rolled on an ability
   check overrides a feat's features.


2. While it is not called "critical fail" or "critical success" the
   death saving throw is a unique case in the rules where the
   mechanics of a benefit, or harm, accrues to a saving throw coming up
   20 or 1. (On a 20 you have 1 HP and are no longer unconscious, on a
   1 you get two fails).

share|improve this answer

edited 16 hours ago

KorvinStarmast

82.5k20257444

answered yesterday

Blake SteelBlake Steel

3,9981948

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Crit fails (and successes) are also for death saves.
  $endgroup$
  – Nacht
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Nacht I added your point in as a note. Blake, I hope you approve. If not, by all means revert.
  $endgroup$
  – KorvinStarmast
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Personally, I feel that " critical failures are only for attack rolls." should be the main point here, as it resolves any other confusion.
  $endgroup$
  – goodguy5
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

2. The Alert feat negates surprise

Because the Alert feat (PHB, p. 165) states:

You can't be surprised while you are conscious

A character with the Alert feat cannot be surprised while they are conscious.

"Surprised" has a clear mechanical meaning.

If a character is surprised, they cannot act on their first turn of combat, and after their first turn, they are no longer surprised.

A character with the Alert feat who rolls a low perception check can be unprepared, but never surprised. Perhaps they don't have enough time to wake all their allies before combat starts or they don't have time to get into position or take the action required to don a shield (before combat). But they can never be "surprised".

Rules as Written, critical failures are only for attack rolls.

It is a common house rule that rolling a 1 on a d20 results in a critical fail, whatever the context - but there is no rule in D&D 5e that states that is the case for anything but attack rolls, where the result is simply "you miss".

---

Notes:

1. The optional rule on page 242 of the DMG ("Critical Success or
   Failure") doesn't explicitly state that a 1 rolled on an ability
   check overrides a feat's features.


2. While it is not called "critical fail" or "critical success" the
   death saving throw is a unique case in the rules where the
   mechanics of a benefit, or harm, accrues to a saving throw coming up
   20 or 1. (On a 20 you have 1 HP and are no longer unconscious, on a
   1 you get two fails).

share|improve this answer

edited 16 hours ago

KorvinStarmast

82.5k20257444

answered yesterday

Blake SteelBlake Steel

3,9981948

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 16 hours ago

KorvinStarmast

82.5k20257444

answered yesterday

Blake SteelBlake Steel

3,9981948

edited 16 hours ago

KorvinStarmast

82.5k20257444

edited 16 hours ago

KorvinStarmast

82.5k20257444

answered yesterday

Blake SteelBlake Steel

3,9981948

answered yesterday

Blake SteelBlake Steel

3,9981948