Does the Rock Gnome trait Artificer's Lore apply when you aren't proficient in History?How to roll perception checks for characters who aren't actively looking without arousing suspicion?What's the advantage of being proficient with a Disguise Kit over the Deception skill?Can you gain a proficiency bonus, without being proficient?How do Expertise and the Acrobat feat proficiency effects combine?Do you apply double Proficiency from Expertise on top of normal Proficiency?Do features that allow you to add twice your proficiency bonus, under some other name, stack with Expertise?Does the Abjuration wizard's Improved Abjuration feature apply when casting sufficiently high-level spells from scrolls?Is there a way for a Rock Gnome Artificer to have double proficiency with Tinker's Tools?Are there other features like “Jack of All Trades” or “Remarkable Athlete”?Is there a way to add your proficiency bonus to a generic ability check for use with Reliable Talent?

As an international instructor, should I openly talk about my accent?

Multiple options vs single option UI

SFDX - Create Objects with Custom Properties

How do I produce this Greek letter koppa: Ϟ in pdfLaTeX?

Why did C use the -> operator instead of reusing the . operator?

Extracting Dirichlet series coefficients

Retract an already submitted recommendation letter (written for an undergrad student)

Is it acceptable to use working hours to read general interest books?

What is purpose of DB Browser(dbbrowser.aspx) under admin tool?

A strange hotel

Check if a string is entirely made of the same substring

What makes accurate emulation of old systems a difficult task?

Who's the random kid standing in the gathering at the end?

How important is it that $TERM is correct?

What *exactly* is electrical current, voltage, and resistance?

Multiple fireplaces in an apartment building?

Can I criticise the more senior developers around me for not writing clean code?

How bug prioritization works in agile projects vs non agile

Mistake in years of experience in resume?

What is this word supposed to be?

Creating a chemical industry from a medieval tech level without petroleum

My bank got bought out, am I now going to have to start filing tax returns in a different state?

What is the term for a person whose job is to place products on shelves in stores?

Will I lose my paid in full property



Does the Rock Gnome trait Artificer's Lore apply when you aren't proficient in History?


How to roll perception checks for characters who aren't actively looking without arousing suspicion?What's the advantage of being proficient with a Disguise Kit over the Deception skill?Can you gain a proficiency bonus, without being proficient?How do Expertise and the Acrobat feat proficiency effects combine?Do you apply double Proficiency from Expertise on top of normal Proficiency?Do features that allow you to add twice your proficiency bonus, under some other name, stack with Expertise?Does the Abjuration wizard's Improved Abjuration feature apply when casting sufficiently high-level spells from scrolls?Is there a way for a Rock Gnome Artificer to have double proficiency with Tinker's Tools?Are there other features like “Jack of All Trades” or “Remarkable Athlete”?Is there a way to add your proficiency bonus to a generic ability check for use with Reliable Talent?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








11












$begingroup$


Rock Gnomes have the following racial trait (PHB, p. 37):




Artificer’s Lore



Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to magic items, alchemical objects, or technological devices, you can add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.




If I have a Rock Gnome who is proficient in History, then I normally apply my proficiency bonus to make History checks, but if the check is about, say, a magic item, I can add twice my proficiency bonus instead of just applying it once as normal. This much makes sense.



But what if my Rock Gnome isn't proficient in History? Since I don't apply any proficiency bonus normally (because I'm not proficient), I have nothing to apply instead of, like how you technically can't have more of something if you haven't had any yet. So does that mean I don't apply my proficiency bonus twice, since ordinarily I don't apply anything?



Initially I assumed that it probably means you get to treat the situation as though you are proficient in History in those circumstances (i.e. when the check is related to magic items, alchemical objects, or technological devices), but if we contrast it with a Dwarf's Stonecunning trait (PHB, p. 20):




Stonecunning



Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus.




For Stonecunning, it explicitly states that you are considered proficient in History for such checks, taking into account dwarven characters who are not proficient in History normally.



So, RAW, does the Rock Gnome trait Artificer's Lore apply when you aren't proficient in History?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$


















    11












    $begingroup$


    Rock Gnomes have the following racial trait (PHB, p. 37):




    Artificer’s Lore



    Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to magic items, alchemical objects, or technological devices, you can add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.




    If I have a Rock Gnome who is proficient in History, then I normally apply my proficiency bonus to make History checks, but if the check is about, say, a magic item, I can add twice my proficiency bonus instead of just applying it once as normal. This much makes sense.



    But what if my Rock Gnome isn't proficient in History? Since I don't apply any proficiency bonus normally (because I'm not proficient), I have nothing to apply instead of, like how you technically can't have more of something if you haven't had any yet. So does that mean I don't apply my proficiency bonus twice, since ordinarily I don't apply anything?



    Initially I assumed that it probably means you get to treat the situation as though you are proficient in History in those circumstances (i.e. when the check is related to magic items, alchemical objects, or technological devices), but if we contrast it with a Dwarf's Stonecunning trait (PHB, p. 20):




    Stonecunning



    Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus.




    For Stonecunning, it explicitly states that you are considered proficient in History for such checks, taking into account dwarven characters who are not proficient in History normally.



    So, RAW, does the Rock Gnome trait Artificer's Lore apply when you aren't proficient in History?










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      11












      11








      11





      $begingroup$


      Rock Gnomes have the following racial trait (PHB, p. 37):




      Artificer’s Lore



      Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to magic items, alchemical objects, or technological devices, you can add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.




      If I have a Rock Gnome who is proficient in History, then I normally apply my proficiency bonus to make History checks, but if the check is about, say, a magic item, I can add twice my proficiency bonus instead of just applying it once as normal. This much makes sense.



      But what if my Rock Gnome isn't proficient in History? Since I don't apply any proficiency bonus normally (because I'm not proficient), I have nothing to apply instead of, like how you technically can't have more of something if you haven't had any yet. So does that mean I don't apply my proficiency bonus twice, since ordinarily I don't apply anything?



      Initially I assumed that it probably means you get to treat the situation as though you are proficient in History in those circumstances (i.e. when the check is related to magic items, alchemical objects, or technological devices), but if we contrast it with a Dwarf's Stonecunning trait (PHB, p. 20):




      Stonecunning



      Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus.




      For Stonecunning, it explicitly states that you are considered proficient in History for such checks, taking into account dwarven characters who are not proficient in History normally.



      So, RAW, does the Rock Gnome trait Artificer's Lore apply when you aren't proficient in History?










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Rock Gnomes have the following racial trait (PHB, p. 37):




      Artificer’s Lore



      Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to magic items, alchemical objects, or technological devices, you can add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.




      If I have a Rock Gnome who is proficient in History, then I normally apply my proficiency bonus to make History checks, but if the check is about, say, a magic item, I can add twice my proficiency bonus instead of just applying it once as normal. This much makes sense.



      But what if my Rock Gnome isn't proficient in History? Since I don't apply any proficiency bonus normally (because I'm not proficient), I have nothing to apply instead of, like how you technically can't have more of something if you haven't had any yet. So does that mean I don't apply my proficiency bonus twice, since ordinarily I don't apply anything?



      Initially I assumed that it probably means you get to treat the situation as though you are proficient in History in those circumstances (i.e. when the check is related to magic items, alchemical objects, or technological devices), but if we contrast it with a Dwarf's Stonecunning trait (PHB, p. 20):




      Stonecunning



      Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus.




      For Stonecunning, it explicitly states that you are considered proficient in History for such checks, taking into account dwarven characters who are not proficient in History normally.



      So, RAW, does the Rock Gnome trait Artificer's Lore apply when you aren't proficient in History?







      dnd-5e skills racial-traits proficiency gnomes






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Apr 21 at 23:00









      V2Blast

      27.8k598169




      27.8k598169










      asked Apr 21 at 11:22









      NathanSNathanS

      27.3k9134288




      27.3k9134288




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          10












          $begingroup$

          The wordings are essentially equivalent



          Both wordings result in you adding twice your proficiency bonus to any roll for which the ability applies. The wording you've highlighted in bold for Artificer's Lore is just ensuring that the double proficiency bonus doesn't stack with any other proficiency (i.e. you don't get triple your proficiency bonus if you were already proficient). I'm not sure why they would use a different wording for these abilities with apparently identical mechanics.



          The alternative interpretation would be that Artificer's Lore has no effect at all without proficiency in history. This would be unprecedented: racial traits tend to stand alone independent of class or background features. No other racial trait from any race that I can think of is entirely negated by failing to acquire the appropriate proficiency through one's class or background.



          One possible very subtle difference is that unlike Stonecunning, Artificer's Lore doesn't explicitly give you proficiency in the relevant check despite changing the modifier. This could conceivably matter if actual proficiency is a hard requirement for something. On the other hand, I think there's a strong case to be made that adding your proficiency bonus is synonymous with actually having proficiency, so this is very much the DM's call. As a DM, I would favor the player by default and consider them proficient, rather than attempting to rules-laywer my way out of letting the player do something cool with their racial ability. Under this ruling, the mechanics are precisely equivalent to Stonecunning.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "122"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );













            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145562%2fdoes-the-rock-gnome-trait-artificers-lore-apply-when-you-arent-proficient-in-h%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes








            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            10












            $begingroup$

            The wordings are essentially equivalent



            Both wordings result in you adding twice your proficiency bonus to any roll for which the ability applies. The wording you've highlighted in bold for Artificer's Lore is just ensuring that the double proficiency bonus doesn't stack with any other proficiency (i.e. you don't get triple your proficiency bonus if you were already proficient). I'm not sure why they would use a different wording for these abilities with apparently identical mechanics.



            The alternative interpretation would be that Artificer's Lore has no effect at all without proficiency in history. This would be unprecedented: racial traits tend to stand alone independent of class or background features. No other racial trait from any race that I can think of is entirely negated by failing to acquire the appropriate proficiency through one's class or background.



            One possible very subtle difference is that unlike Stonecunning, Artificer's Lore doesn't explicitly give you proficiency in the relevant check despite changing the modifier. This could conceivably matter if actual proficiency is a hard requirement for something. On the other hand, I think there's a strong case to be made that adding your proficiency bonus is synonymous with actually having proficiency, so this is very much the DM's call. As a DM, I would favor the player by default and consider them proficient, rather than attempting to rules-laywer my way out of letting the player do something cool with their racial ability. Under this ruling, the mechanics are precisely equivalent to Stonecunning.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$

















              10












              $begingroup$

              The wordings are essentially equivalent



              Both wordings result in you adding twice your proficiency bonus to any roll for which the ability applies. The wording you've highlighted in bold for Artificer's Lore is just ensuring that the double proficiency bonus doesn't stack with any other proficiency (i.e. you don't get triple your proficiency bonus if you were already proficient). I'm not sure why they would use a different wording for these abilities with apparently identical mechanics.



              The alternative interpretation would be that Artificer's Lore has no effect at all without proficiency in history. This would be unprecedented: racial traits tend to stand alone independent of class or background features. No other racial trait from any race that I can think of is entirely negated by failing to acquire the appropriate proficiency through one's class or background.



              One possible very subtle difference is that unlike Stonecunning, Artificer's Lore doesn't explicitly give you proficiency in the relevant check despite changing the modifier. This could conceivably matter if actual proficiency is a hard requirement for something. On the other hand, I think there's a strong case to be made that adding your proficiency bonus is synonymous with actually having proficiency, so this is very much the DM's call. As a DM, I would favor the player by default and consider them proficient, rather than attempting to rules-laywer my way out of letting the player do something cool with their racial ability. Under this ruling, the mechanics are precisely equivalent to Stonecunning.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$















                10












                10








                10





                $begingroup$

                The wordings are essentially equivalent



                Both wordings result in you adding twice your proficiency bonus to any roll for which the ability applies. The wording you've highlighted in bold for Artificer's Lore is just ensuring that the double proficiency bonus doesn't stack with any other proficiency (i.e. you don't get triple your proficiency bonus if you were already proficient). I'm not sure why they would use a different wording for these abilities with apparently identical mechanics.



                The alternative interpretation would be that Artificer's Lore has no effect at all without proficiency in history. This would be unprecedented: racial traits tend to stand alone independent of class or background features. No other racial trait from any race that I can think of is entirely negated by failing to acquire the appropriate proficiency through one's class or background.



                One possible very subtle difference is that unlike Stonecunning, Artificer's Lore doesn't explicitly give you proficiency in the relevant check despite changing the modifier. This could conceivably matter if actual proficiency is a hard requirement for something. On the other hand, I think there's a strong case to be made that adding your proficiency bonus is synonymous with actually having proficiency, so this is very much the DM's call. As a DM, I would favor the player by default and consider them proficient, rather than attempting to rules-laywer my way out of letting the player do something cool with their racial ability. Under this ruling, the mechanics are precisely equivalent to Stonecunning.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$



                The wordings are essentially equivalent



                Both wordings result in you adding twice your proficiency bonus to any roll for which the ability applies. The wording you've highlighted in bold for Artificer's Lore is just ensuring that the double proficiency bonus doesn't stack with any other proficiency (i.e. you don't get triple your proficiency bonus if you were already proficient). I'm not sure why they would use a different wording for these abilities with apparently identical mechanics.



                The alternative interpretation would be that Artificer's Lore has no effect at all without proficiency in history. This would be unprecedented: racial traits tend to stand alone independent of class or background features. No other racial trait from any race that I can think of is entirely negated by failing to acquire the appropriate proficiency through one's class or background.



                One possible very subtle difference is that unlike Stonecunning, Artificer's Lore doesn't explicitly give you proficiency in the relevant check despite changing the modifier. This could conceivably matter if actual proficiency is a hard requirement for something. On the other hand, I think there's a strong case to be made that adding your proficiency bonus is synonymous with actually having proficiency, so this is very much the DM's call. As a DM, I would favor the player by default and consider them proficient, rather than attempting to rules-laywer my way out of letting the player do something cool with their racial ability. Under this ruling, the mechanics are precisely equivalent to Stonecunning.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Apr 21 at 16:05

























                answered Apr 21 at 14:21









                Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson

                12.5k24394




                12.5k24394



























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded
















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid


                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function ()
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145562%2fdoes-the-rock-gnome-trait-artificers-lore-apply-when-you-arent-proficient-in-h%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Sum ergo cogito? 1 nng

                    419 nièngy_Soadمي 19bal1.5o_g

                    Queiggey Chernihivv 9NnOo i Zw X QqKk LpB