Is Cinnamon a desktop environment or a window manager? (Or both?) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Browser instead of window manager?Window Manager vs. Desktop Environment vs. Window System? What's the difference?Sideward Scrolling Desktop Environment or Window Manager Anyone have a successful Xfce + Fluxbox spin?Cinnamon Shortcut to Move Window Between MonitorsTrying to start process on login, but no .xinitrc file to work withMaximize window when dragged to top in Mint/CinnamonRunning Libreoffice without a window manager - is there a way to specify window geometry?How do I run cinnamon in Ubuntu?Manjaro gnome to cinnamon environment
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Is Cinnamon a desktop environment or a window manager? (Or both?)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Browser instead of window manager?Window Manager vs. Desktop Environment vs. Window System? What's the difference?Sideward Scrolling Desktop Environment or Window Manager Anyone have a successful Xfce + Fluxbox spin?Cinnamon Shortcut to Move Window Between MonitorsTrying to start process on login, but no .xinitrc file to work withMaximize window when dragged to top in Mint/CinnamonRunning Libreoffice without a window manager - is there a way to specify window geometry?How do I run cinnamon in Ubuntu?Manjaro gnome to cinnamon environment
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As far as I understand it:
- X11 is how you draw primitive things;
- A (compositing) window manager is something that uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things, and position them in layers on screen;
- A desktop environment is something that uses a window manager to provide the bare essentials of a GUI-based operating system, like a control panel, calculator and solitaire apps, task bar, etc.
If my understanding is correct - what is Cinnamon? Its wiki article (and the tag here on SU) describe it as a "desktop environment", but I can't find what window manager Linux Mint uses by default in its wiki article, and the Tara release notes mention improving the "window manager" in the Cinnamon 3.8 section.
linux xorg window-manager cinnamon desktop-environments
asked Apr 11 at 20:01
Adam BarnesAdam Barnes
290128
add a comment |
As far as I understand it:
- X11 is how you draw primitive things;
- A (compositing) window manager is something that uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things, and position them in layers on screen;
- A desktop environment is something that uses a window manager to provide the bare essentials of a GUI-based operating system, like a control panel, calculator and solitaire apps, task bar, etc.
If my understanding is correct - what is Cinnamon? Its wiki article (and the tag here on SU) describe it as a "desktop environment", but I can't find what window manager Linux Mint uses by default in its wiki article, and the Tara release notes mention improving the "window manager" in the Cinnamon 3.8 section.
linux xorg window-manager cinnamon desktop-environments
asked Apr 11 at 20:01
Adam BarnesAdam Barnes
290128
Actually what "uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things" (eg: menu bars, buttons, combo boxes) is a toolkit like Tk, GTK, and Qt. As @TSJNachos117 said, a window manager decorates X11 windows with borders and titles to allow easier resizing and positioning.
– Diogo Kollross
Apr 12 at 11:57
4
TIL that solitaire apps is a bare essential of a GUI-based operating system.
– pipe
Apr 12 at 13:01
add a comment |
As far as I understand it:
- X11 is how you draw primitive things;
- A (compositing) window manager is something that uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things, and position them in layers on screen;
- A desktop environment is something that uses a window manager to provide the bare essentials of a GUI-based operating system, like a control panel, calculator and solitaire apps, task bar, etc.
If my understanding is correct - what is Cinnamon? Its wiki article (and the tag here on SU) describe it as a "desktop environment", but I can't find what window manager Linux Mint uses by default in its wiki article, and the Tara release notes mention improving the "window manager" in the Cinnamon 3.8 section.
linux xorg window-manager cinnamon desktop-environments
asked Apr 11 at 20:01
Adam BarnesAdam Barnes
290128
As far as I understand it:
- X11 is how you draw primitive things;
- A (compositing) window manager is something that uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things, and position them in layers on screen;
- A desktop environment is something that uses a window manager to provide the bare essentials of a GUI-based operating system, like a control panel, calculator and solitaire apps, task bar, etc.
If my understanding is correct - what is Cinnamon? Its wiki article (and the tag here on SU) describe it as a "desktop environment", but I can't find what window manager Linux Mint uses by default in its wiki article, and the Tara release notes mention improving the "window manager" in the Cinnamon 3.8 section.
linux xorg window-manager cinnamon desktop-environments
linux xorg window-manager cinnamon desktop-environments
asked Apr 11 at 20:01
Adam BarnesAdam Barnes
290128
asked Apr 11 at 20:01
Adam BarnesAdam Barnes
290128
asked Apr 11 at 20:01
Adam BarnesAdam Barnes
290128
asked Apr 11 at 20:01
Adam BarnesAdam Barnes
290128
asked Apr 11 at 20:01
Adam BarnesAdam Barnes
290128
290128
Actually what "uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things" (eg: menu bars, buttons, combo boxes) is a toolkit like Tk, GTK, and Qt. As @TSJNachos117 said, a window manager decorates X11 windows with borders and titles to allow easier resizing and positioning.
– Diogo Kollross
Apr 12 at 11:57
4
TIL that solitaire apps is a bare essential of a GUI-based operating system.
– pipe
Apr 12 at 13:01
add a comment |
Actually what "uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things" (eg: menu bars, buttons, combo boxes) is a toolkit like Tk, GTK, and Qt. As @TSJNachos117 said, a window manager decorates X11 windows with borders and titles to allow easier resizing and positioning.
– Diogo Kollross
Apr 12 at 11:57
4
TIL that solitaire apps is a bare essential of a GUI-based operating system.
– pipe
Apr 12 at 13:01
Actually what "uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things" (eg: menu bars, buttons, combo boxes) is a toolkit like Tk, GTK, and Qt. As @TSJNachos117 said, a window manager decorates X11 windows with borders and titles to allow easier resizing and positioning.
– Diogo Kollross
Apr 12 at 11:57
Actually what "uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things" (eg: menu bars, buttons, combo boxes) is a toolkit like Tk, GTK, and Qt. As @TSJNachos117 said, a window manager decorates X11 windows with borders and titles to allow easier resizing and positioning.
– Diogo Kollross
Apr 12 at 11:57
4
4
TIL that solitaire apps is a bare essential of a GUI-based operating system.
– pipe
Apr 12 at 13:01
TIL that solitaire apps is a bare essential of a GUI-based operating system.
– pipe
Apr 12 at 13:01
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Cinnamon is a desktop environment, as its wikipedia page and archwiki page both state.
Cinnamon uses its own window manager called muffin, installing the cinnamon package also installs the muffin WM package on Debian.
Cinnamon also has "a bundle of programs running on top of a computer operating system, which share a common graphical user interface (GUI)" as Wikipedia's Desktop environment says as a basic definition. Its programs are X-Apps, but like all programs they're generally voluntary if you want to remove & use others instead.
Additionally, the archwiki page also states:
Cinnamon does not support using a different window manager.
edited Apr 12 at 13:40
HBv6
1033
answered Apr 11 at 20:24
Xen2050Xen2050
11.6k31738
ArchWiki seems strong. Is that something I could rely on to get any information regarding Linux? Or is it limited to stuff relevant to Arch?
– Adam Barnes
Apr 11 at 20:25
10
ArchWiki is a very professional source, not only for Arch and derivatives.
– GabrielaGarcia
Apr 11 at 20:47
1
Arch's wiki is generally fantastic, mostly relevant to packages available to any linux, but sometimes the system config info seems specific to arch
– Xen2050
Apr 11 at 21:50
2
@AdamBarnes ArchWiki has a focus on Arch (instructions tend to be specific to pacman, systemd, etc), but the information is relevant to any Linux, and is exceptionally informative and surprisingly diverse. Even before I started using Arch, that wiki was always my first stop for that sort of information. As an example, if I had a specific problem with an application, ArchWiki would tend to have information on that problem in particular (and how to fix it) that wasn't documented anywhere else that I could find.
– DarthFennec
Apr 12 at 19:00
add a comment |
I would consider it to be both a desktop environment AND a window manager. On Ubuntu, Muffin is NOT a dependency for the Cinnamon desktop environment, although you can install manually if you want. (Maybe Cinnamon the window manager uses Muffin's libraries?). When cinnamon is launched, if you launch a task management-type program (such as top), you'll probably notice a program called "cinnamon" running. If you kill cinnamon, X11 will look exactly like it does when there is no window manager (windows won't have any borders or titlebars, windows will be clumsily stacked and unmovable, etc).
If you have some window manager running, and you run the following command from a terminal: cinnamon --replace, your window manager will be replaced with the Cinnamon window manager.
PS: You can totally open windows without a window manager. Thus, X11 can draw more than "primitive things", and can in fact play videos, run office suites, browse the web, etc. without the need of a window manager. In practice, however, you won't want to attempt to do any of these things without a window manager, as simple things like launching programs, switching/moving/resizing/minimizing windows, and sending keyboard strokes to a specific window will become a HUGE pain.
answered Apr 11 at 23:14
TSJNachos117TSJNachos117
27639
1
Which cinnamon package do you install that doesn't have any *muffin* dependencies? Maybe you're not getting a full cinnamon... From browsing ubuntu's packages apparently cinnamon looks almost like a metapackage that depends on muffin & 2 other *muffin* packages, while cinnamon-common depends on one *muffin* package, that depends on another libmuffin0, that is the "lightweight window and compositing manager (shared library)"
– Xen2050
Apr 12 at 6:27
I have cinnamon installed (cinnamon-common is installed as a cinnamon dependency). It does not depend on muffin at all, although it does depend on gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0. I'm running ubuntu 18.04
– TSJNachos117
2 days ago
That's what I thought, you don't have all the cinnamon packages. And the cinnamon-common you do have installed does depend on most of (almost all of?) muffin, specifically the gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0 (93k), which depends on libmuffin0 (821k), which depends on muffin-common (5M)... just not the package called "muffin" specifically, that's only (152k).
– Xen2050
yesterday
I'm not too sure which cinnamon processes are running on your system, you could check with something likeps auxfand then see which libraries are used by those programs withlddorobjdump -p ... | grep NEEDED. Or check processes withpmaporpldd(though pldd froze my GUI when I tried it on my window manager, had to switch to another virt.terminal to kill it).
– Xen2050
yesterday
You know, I just rechecked, and I found that cinnamon also depends on libmuffin0, which is indeed loaded according to objdump. Still, I consider cinnamon to be different from muffin. Here's an analogy: mpv is a media player that depends on ffmpeg's libraries. That said, ffmpeg and mpv are still different programs, which operate in different ways, and are useful for different tasks. In the Cinnamon DE, the process for the window manager is "cinnamon".
– TSJNachos117
10 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Cinnamon is a desktop environment, as its wikipedia page and archwiki page both state.
Cinnamon uses its own window manager called muffin, installing the cinnamon package also installs the muffin WM package on Debian.
Cinnamon also has "a bundle of programs running on top of a computer operating system, which share a common graphical user interface (GUI)" as Wikipedia's Desktop environment says as a basic definition. Its programs are X-Apps, but like all programs they're generally voluntary if you want to remove & use others instead.
Additionally, the archwiki page also states:
Cinnamon does not support using a different window manager.
edited Apr 12 at 13:40
HBv6
1033
answered Apr 11 at 20:24
Xen2050Xen2050
11.6k31738
ArchWiki seems strong. Is that something I could rely on to get any information regarding Linux? Or is it limited to stuff relevant to Arch?
– Adam Barnes
Apr 11 at 20:25
10
ArchWiki is a very professional source, not only for Arch and derivatives.
– GabrielaGarcia
Apr 11 at 20:47
1
Arch's wiki is generally fantastic, mostly relevant to packages available to any linux, but sometimes the system config info seems specific to arch
– Xen2050
Apr 11 at 21:50
2
@AdamBarnes ArchWiki has a focus on Arch (instructions tend to be specific to pacman, systemd, etc), but the information is relevant to any Linux, and is exceptionally informative and surprisingly diverse. Even before I started using Arch, that wiki was always my first stop for that sort of information. As an example, if I had a specific problem with an application, ArchWiki would tend to have information on that problem in particular (and how to fix it) that wasn't documented anywhere else that I could find.
– DarthFennec
Apr 12 at 19:00
add a comment |
Cinnamon is a desktop environment, as its wikipedia page and archwiki page both state.
Cinnamon uses its own window manager called muffin, installing the cinnamon package also installs the muffin WM package on Debian.
Cinnamon also has "a bundle of programs running on top of a computer operating system, which share a common graphical user interface (GUI)" as Wikipedia's Desktop environment says as a basic definition. Its programs are X-Apps, but like all programs they're generally voluntary if you want to remove & use others instead.
Additionally, the archwiki page also states:
Cinnamon does not support using a different window manager.
edited Apr 12 at 13:40
HBv6
1033
answered Apr 11 at 20:24
Xen2050Xen2050
11.6k31738
ArchWiki seems strong. Is that something I could rely on to get any information regarding Linux? Or is it limited to stuff relevant to Arch?
– Adam Barnes
Apr 11 at 20:25
10
ArchWiki is a very professional source, not only for Arch and derivatives.
– GabrielaGarcia
Apr 11 at 20:47
1
Arch's wiki is generally fantastic, mostly relevant to packages available to any linux, but sometimes the system config info seems specific to arch
– Xen2050
Apr 11 at 21:50
2
@AdamBarnes ArchWiki has a focus on Arch (instructions tend to be specific to pacman, systemd, etc), but the information is relevant to any Linux, and is exceptionally informative and surprisingly diverse. Even before I started using Arch, that wiki was always my first stop for that sort of information. As an example, if I had a specific problem with an application, ArchWiki would tend to have information on that problem in particular (and how to fix it) that wasn't documented anywhere else that I could find.
– DarthFennec
Apr 12 at 19:00
add a comment |
Cinnamon is a desktop environment, as its wikipedia page and archwiki page both state.
Cinnamon uses its own window manager called muffin, installing the cinnamon package also installs the muffin WM package on Debian.
Cinnamon also has "a bundle of programs running on top of a computer operating system, which share a common graphical user interface (GUI)" as Wikipedia's Desktop environment says as a basic definition. Its programs are X-Apps, but like all programs they're generally voluntary if you want to remove & use others instead.
Additionally, the archwiki page also states:
Cinnamon does not support using a different window manager.
edited Apr 12 at 13:40
HBv6
1033
answered Apr 11 at 20:24
Xen2050Xen2050
11.6k31738
Cinnamon is a desktop environment, as its wikipedia page and archwiki page both state.
Cinnamon uses its own window manager called muffin, installing the cinnamon package also installs the muffin WM package on Debian.
Cinnamon also has "a bundle of programs running on top of a computer operating system, which share a common graphical user interface (GUI)" as Wikipedia's Desktop environment says as a basic definition. Its programs are X-Apps, but like all programs they're generally voluntary if you want to remove & use others instead.
Additionally, the archwiki page also states:
Cinnamon does not support using a different window manager.
edited Apr 12 at 13:40
HBv6
1033
answered Apr 11 at 20:24
Xen2050Xen2050
11.6k31738
edited Apr 12 at 13:40
HBv6
1033
edited Apr 12 at 13:40
HBv6
1033
edited Apr 12 at 13:40
HBv6
1033
1033
answered Apr 11 at 20:24
Xen2050Xen2050
11.6k31738
answered Apr 11 at 20:24
Xen2050Xen2050
11.6k31738
answered Apr 11 at 20:24
Xen2050Xen2050
11.6k31738
11.6k31738
ArchWiki seems strong. Is that something I could rely on to get any information regarding Linux? Or is it limited to stuff relevant to Arch?
– Adam Barnes
Apr 11 at 20:25
10
ArchWiki is a very professional source, not only for Arch and derivatives.
– GabrielaGarcia
Apr 11 at 20:47
1
Arch's wiki is generally fantastic, mostly relevant to packages available to any linux, but sometimes the system config info seems specific to arch
– Xen2050
Apr 11 at 21:50
2
@AdamBarnes ArchWiki has a focus on Arch (instructions tend to be specific to pacman, systemd, etc), but the information is relevant to any Linux, and is exceptionally informative and surprisingly diverse. Even before I started using Arch, that wiki was always my first stop for that sort of information. As an example, if I had a specific problem with an application, ArchWiki would tend to have information on that problem in particular (and how to fix it) that wasn't documented anywhere else that I could find.
– DarthFennec
Apr 12 at 19:00
add a comment |
ArchWiki seems strong. Is that something I could rely on to get any information regarding Linux? Or is it limited to stuff relevant to Arch?
– Adam Barnes
Apr 11 at 20:25
10
ArchWiki is a very professional source, not only for Arch and derivatives.
– GabrielaGarcia
Apr 11 at 20:47
1
Arch's wiki is generally fantastic, mostly relevant to packages available to any linux, but sometimes the system config info seems specific to arch
– Xen2050
Apr 11 at 21:50
2
@AdamBarnes ArchWiki has a focus on Arch (instructions tend to be specific to pacman, systemd, etc), but the information is relevant to any Linux, and is exceptionally informative and surprisingly diverse. Even before I started using Arch, that wiki was always my first stop for that sort of information. As an example, if I had a specific problem with an application, ArchWiki would tend to have information on that problem in particular (and how to fix it) that wasn't documented anywhere else that I could find.
– DarthFennec
Apr 12 at 19:00
ArchWiki seems strong. Is that something I could rely on to get any information regarding Linux? Or is it limited to stuff relevant to Arch?
– Adam Barnes
Apr 11 at 20:25
ArchWiki seems strong. Is that something I could rely on to get any information regarding Linux? Or is it limited to stuff relevant to Arch?
– Adam Barnes
Apr 11 at 20:25
10
10
ArchWiki is a very professional source, not only for Arch and derivatives.
– GabrielaGarcia
Apr 11 at 20:47
ArchWiki is a very professional source, not only for Arch and derivatives.
– GabrielaGarcia
Apr 11 at 20:47
1
1
Arch's wiki is generally fantastic, mostly relevant to packages available to any linux, but sometimes the system config info seems specific to arch
– Xen2050
Apr 11 at 21:50
Arch's wiki is generally fantastic, mostly relevant to packages available to any linux, but sometimes the system config info seems specific to arch
– Xen2050
Apr 11 at 21:50
2
2
@AdamBarnes ArchWiki has a focus on Arch (instructions tend to be specific to pacman, systemd, etc), but the information is relevant to any Linux, and is exceptionally informative and surprisingly diverse. Even before I started using Arch, that wiki was always my first stop for that sort of information. As an example, if I had a specific problem with an application, ArchWiki would tend to have information on that problem in particular (and how to fix it) that wasn't documented anywhere else that I could find.
– DarthFennec
Apr 12 at 19:00
@AdamBarnes ArchWiki has a focus on Arch (instructions tend to be specific to pacman, systemd, etc), but the information is relevant to any Linux, and is exceptionally informative and surprisingly diverse. Even before I started using Arch, that wiki was always my first stop for that sort of information. As an example, if I had a specific problem with an application, ArchWiki would tend to have information on that problem in particular (and how to fix it) that wasn't documented anywhere else that I could find.
– DarthFennec
Apr 12 at 19:00
add a comment |
I would consider it to be both a desktop environment AND a window manager. On Ubuntu, Muffin is NOT a dependency for the Cinnamon desktop environment, although you can install manually if you want. (Maybe Cinnamon the window manager uses Muffin's libraries?). When cinnamon is launched, if you launch a task management-type program (such as top), you'll probably notice a program called "cinnamon" running. If you kill cinnamon, X11 will look exactly like it does when there is no window manager (windows won't have any borders or titlebars, windows will be clumsily stacked and unmovable, etc).
If you have some window manager running, and you run the following command from a terminal: cinnamon --replace, your window manager will be replaced with the Cinnamon window manager.
PS: You can totally open windows without a window manager. Thus, X11 can draw more than "primitive things", and can in fact play videos, run office suites, browse the web, etc. without the need of a window manager. In practice, however, you won't want to attempt to do any of these things without a window manager, as simple things like launching programs, switching/moving/resizing/minimizing windows, and sending keyboard strokes to a specific window will become a HUGE pain.
answered Apr 11 at 23:14
TSJNachos117TSJNachos117
27639
1
Which cinnamon package do you install that doesn't have any *muffin* dependencies? Maybe you're not getting a full cinnamon... From browsing ubuntu's packages apparently cinnamon looks almost like a metapackage that depends on muffin & 2 other *muffin* packages, while cinnamon-common depends on one *muffin* package, that depends on another libmuffin0, that is the "lightweight window and compositing manager (shared library)"
– Xen2050
Apr 12 at 6:27
I have cinnamon installed (cinnamon-common is installed as a cinnamon dependency). It does not depend on muffin at all, although it does depend on gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0. I'm running ubuntu 18.04
– TSJNachos117
2 days ago
That's what I thought, you don't have all the cinnamon packages. And the cinnamon-common you do have installed does depend on most of (almost all of?) muffin, specifically the gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0 (93k), which depends on libmuffin0 (821k), which depends on muffin-common (5M)... just not the package called "muffin" specifically, that's only (152k).
– Xen2050
yesterday
I'm not too sure which cinnamon processes are running on your system, you could check with something likeps auxfand then see which libraries are used by those programs withlddorobjdump -p ... | grep NEEDED. Or check processes withpmaporpldd(though pldd froze my GUI when I tried it on my window manager, had to switch to another virt.terminal to kill it).
– Xen2050
yesterday
You know, I just rechecked, and I found that cinnamon also depends on libmuffin0, which is indeed loaded according to objdump. Still, I consider cinnamon to be different from muffin. Here's an analogy: mpv is a media player that depends on ffmpeg's libraries. That said, ffmpeg and mpv are still different programs, which operate in different ways, and are useful for different tasks. In the Cinnamon DE, the process for the window manager is "cinnamon".
– TSJNachos117
10 hours ago
add a comment |
I would consider it to be both a desktop environment AND a window manager. On Ubuntu, Muffin is NOT a dependency for the Cinnamon desktop environment, although you can install manually if you want. (Maybe Cinnamon the window manager uses Muffin's libraries?). When cinnamon is launched, if you launch a task management-type program (such as top), you'll probably notice a program called "cinnamon" running. If you kill cinnamon, X11 will look exactly like it does when there is no window manager (windows won't have any borders or titlebars, windows will be clumsily stacked and unmovable, etc).
If you have some window manager running, and you run the following command from a terminal: cinnamon --replace, your window manager will be replaced with the Cinnamon window manager.
PS: You can totally open windows without a window manager. Thus, X11 can draw more than "primitive things", and can in fact play videos, run office suites, browse the web, etc. without the need of a window manager. In practice, however, you won't want to attempt to do any of these things without a window manager, as simple things like launching programs, switching/moving/resizing/minimizing windows, and sending keyboard strokes to a specific window will become a HUGE pain.
answered Apr 11 at 23:14
TSJNachos117TSJNachos117
27639
1
Which cinnamon package do you install that doesn't have any *muffin* dependencies? Maybe you're not getting a full cinnamon... From browsing ubuntu's packages apparently cinnamon looks almost like a metapackage that depends on muffin & 2 other *muffin* packages, while cinnamon-common depends on one *muffin* package, that depends on another libmuffin0, that is the "lightweight window and compositing manager (shared library)"
– Xen2050
Apr 12 at 6:27
I have cinnamon installed (cinnamon-common is installed as a cinnamon dependency). It does not depend on muffin at all, although it does depend on gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0. I'm running ubuntu 18.04
– TSJNachos117
2 days ago
That's what I thought, you don't have all the cinnamon packages. And the cinnamon-common you do have installed does depend on most of (almost all of?) muffin, specifically the gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0 (93k), which depends on libmuffin0 (821k), which depends on muffin-common (5M)... just not the package called "muffin" specifically, that's only (152k).
– Xen2050
yesterday
I'm not too sure which cinnamon processes are running on your system, you could check with something likeps auxfand then see which libraries are used by those programs withlddorobjdump -p ... | grep NEEDED. Or check processes withpmaporpldd(though pldd froze my GUI when I tried it on my window manager, had to switch to another virt.terminal to kill it).
– Xen2050
yesterday
You know, I just rechecked, and I found that cinnamon also depends on libmuffin0, which is indeed loaded according to objdump. Still, I consider cinnamon to be different from muffin. Here's an analogy: mpv is a media player that depends on ffmpeg's libraries. That said, ffmpeg and mpv are still different programs, which operate in different ways, and are useful for different tasks. In the Cinnamon DE, the process for the window manager is "cinnamon".
– TSJNachos117
10 hours ago
add a comment |
I would consider it to be both a desktop environment AND a window manager. On Ubuntu, Muffin is NOT a dependency for the Cinnamon desktop environment, although you can install manually if you want. (Maybe Cinnamon the window manager uses Muffin's libraries?). When cinnamon is launched, if you launch a task management-type program (such as top), you'll probably notice a program called "cinnamon" running. If you kill cinnamon, X11 will look exactly like it does when there is no window manager (windows won't have any borders or titlebars, windows will be clumsily stacked and unmovable, etc).
If you have some window manager running, and you run the following command from a terminal: cinnamon --replace, your window manager will be replaced with the Cinnamon window manager.
PS: You can totally open windows without a window manager. Thus, X11 can draw more than "primitive things", and can in fact play videos, run office suites, browse the web, etc. without the need of a window manager. In practice, however, you won't want to attempt to do any of these things without a window manager, as simple things like launching programs, switching/moving/resizing/minimizing windows, and sending keyboard strokes to a specific window will become a HUGE pain.
answered Apr 11 at 23:14
TSJNachos117TSJNachos117
27639
I would consider it to be both a desktop environment AND a window manager. On Ubuntu, Muffin is NOT a dependency for the Cinnamon desktop environment, although you can install manually if you want. (Maybe Cinnamon the window manager uses Muffin's libraries?). When cinnamon is launched, if you launch a task management-type program (such as top), you'll probably notice a program called "cinnamon" running. If you kill cinnamon, X11 will look exactly like it does when there is no window manager (windows won't have any borders or titlebars, windows will be clumsily stacked and unmovable, etc).
If you have some window manager running, and you run the following command from a terminal: cinnamon --replace, your window manager will be replaced with the Cinnamon window manager.
PS: You can totally open windows without a window manager. Thus, X11 can draw more than "primitive things", and can in fact play videos, run office suites, browse the web, etc. without the need of a window manager. In practice, however, you won't want to attempt to do any of these things without a window manager, as simple things like launching programs, switching/moving/resizing/minimizing windows, and sending keyboard strokes to a specific window will become a HUGE pain.
answered Apr 11 at 23:14
TSJNachos117TSJNachos117
27639
answered Apr 11 at 23:14
TSJNachos117TSJNachos117
27639
answered Apr 11 at 23:14
TSJNachos117TSJNachos117
27639
answered Apr 11 at 23:14
TSJNachos117TSJNachos117
27639
27639
1
Which cinnamon package do you install that doesn't have any *muffin* dependencies? Maybe you're not getting a full cinnamon... From browsing ubuntu's packages apparently cinnamon looks almost like a metapackage that depends on muffin & 2 other *muffin* packages, while cinnamon-common depends on one *muffin* package, that depends on another libmuffin0, that is the "lightweight window and compositing manager (shared library)"
– Xen2050
Apr 12 at 6:27
I have cinnamon installed (cinnamon-common is installed as a cinnamon dependency). It does not depend on muffin at all, although it does depend on gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0. I'm running ubuntu 18.04
– TSJNachos117
2 days ago
That's what I thought, you don't have all the cinnamon packages. And the cinnamon-common you do have installed does depend on most of (almost all of?) muffin, specifically the gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0 (93k), which depends on libmuffin0 (821k), which depends on muffin-common (5M)... just not the package called "muffin" specifically, that's only (152k).
– Xen2050
yesterday
I'm not too sure which cinnamon processes are running on your system, you could check with something likeps auxfand then see which libraries are used by those programs withlddorobjdump -p ... | grep NEEDED. Or check processes withpmaporpldd(though pldd froze my GUI when I tried it on my window manager, had to switch to another virt.terminal to kill it).
– Xen2050
yesterday
You know, I just rechecked, and I found that cinnamon also depends on libmuffin0, which is indeed loaded according to objdump. Still, I consider cinnamon to be different from muffin. Here's an analogy: mpv is a media player that depends on ffmpeg's libraries. That said, ffmpeg and mpv are still different programs, which operate in different ways, and are useful for different tasks. In the Cinnamon DE, the process for the window manager is "cinnamon".
– TSJNachos117
10 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Which cinnamon package do you install that doesn't have any *muffin* dependencies? Maybe you're not getting a full cinnamon... From browsing ubuntu's packages apparently cinnamon looks almost like a metapackage that depends on muffin & 2 other *muffin* packages, while cinnamon-common depends on one *muffin* package, that depends on another libmuffin0, that is the "lightweight window and compositing manager (shared library)"
– Xen2050
Apr 12 at 6:27
I have cinnamon installed (cinnamon-common is installed as a cinnamon dependency). It does not depend on muffin at all, although it does depend on gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0. I'm running ubuntu 18.04
– TSJNachos117
2 days ago
That's what I thought, you don't have all the cinnamon packages. And the cinnamon-common you do have installed does depend on most of (almost all of?) muffin, specifically the gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0 (93k), which depends on libmuffin0 (821k), which depends on muffin-common (5M)... just not the package called "muffin" specifically, that's only (152k).
– Xen2050
yesterday
I'm not too sure which cinnamon processes are running on your system, you could check with something likeps auxfand then see which libraries are used by those programs withlddorobjdump -p ... | grep NEEDED. Or check processes withpmaporpldd(though pldd froze my GUI when I tried it on my window manager, had to switch to another virt.terminal to kill it).
– Xen2050
yesterday
You know, I just rechecked, and I found that cinnamon also depends on libmuffin0, which is indeed loaded according to objdump. Still, I consider cinnamon to be different from muffin. Here's an analogy: mpv is a media player that depends on ffmpeg's libraries. That said, ffmpeg and mpv are still different programs, which operate in different ways, and are useful for different tasks. In the Cinnamon DE, the process for the window manager is "cinnamon".
– TSJNachos117
10 hours ago
1
1
Which cinnamon package do you install that doesn't have any *muffin* dependencies? Maybe you're not getting a full cinnamon... From browsing ubuntu's packages apparently cinnamon looks almost like a metapackage that depends on muffin & 2 other *muffin* packages, while cinnamon-common depends on one *muffin* package, that depends on another libmuffin0, that is the "lightweight window and compositing manager (shared library)"
– Xen2050
Apr 12 at 6:27
Which cinnamon package do you install that doesn't have any *muffin* dependencies? Maybe you're not getting a full cinnamon... From browsing ubuntu's packages apparently cinnamon looks almost like a metapackage that depends on muffin & 2 other *muffin* packages, while cinnamon-common depends on one *muffin* package, that depends on another libmuffin0, that is the "lightweight window and compositing manager (shared library)"
– Xen2050
Apr 12 at 6:27
I have cinnamon installed (cinnamon-common is installed as a cinnamon dependency). It does not depend on muffin at all, although it does depend on gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0. I'm running ubuntu 18.04
– TSJNachos117
2 days ago
I have cinnamon installed (cinnamon-common is installed as a cinnamon dependency). It does not depend on muffin at all, although it does depend on gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0. I'm running ubuntu 18.04
– TSJNachos117
2 days ago
That's what I thought, you don't have all the cinnamon packages. And the cinnamon-common you do have installed does depend on most of (almost all of?) muffin, specifically the gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0 (93k), which depends on libmuffin0 (821k), which depends on muffin-common (5M)... just not the package called "muffin" specifically, that's only (152k).
– Xen2050
yesterday
That's what I thought, you don't have all the cinnamon packages. And the cinnamon-common you do have installed does depend on most of (almost all of?) muffin, specifically the gir1.2-meta-muffin-0.0 (93k), which depends on libmuffin0 (821k), which depends on muffin-common (5M)... just not the package called "muffin" specifically, that's only (152k).
– Xen2050
yesterday
I'm not too sure which cinnamon processes are running on your system, you could check with something like
ps auxf and then see which libraries are used by those programs with ldd or objdump -p ... | grep NEEDED. Or check processes with pmap or pldd (though pldd froze my GUI when I tried it on my window manager, had to switch to another virt.terminal to kill it).– Xen2050
yesterday
I'm not too sure which cinnamon processes are running on your system, you could check with something like
ps auxf and then see which libraries are used by those programs with ldd or objdump -p ... | grep NEEDED. Or check processes with pmap or pldd (though pldd froze my GUI when I tried it on my window manager, had to switch to another virt.terminal to kill it).– Xen2050
yesterday
You know, I just rechecked, and I found that cinnamon also depends on libmuffin0, which is indeed loaded according to objdump. Still, I consider cinnamon to be different from muffin. Here's an analogy: mpv is a media player that depends on ffmpeg's libraries. That said, ffmpeg and mpv are still different programs, which operate in different ways, and are useful for different tasks. In the Cinnamon DE, the process for the window manager is "cinnamon".
– TSJNachos117
10 hours ago
You know, I just rechecked, and I found that cinnamon also depends on libmuffin0, which is indeed loaded according to objdump. Still, I consider cinnamon to be different from muffin. Here's an analogy: mpv is a media player that depends on ffmpeg's libraries. That said, ffmpeg and mpv are still different programs, which operate in different ways, and are useful for different tasks. In the Cinnamon DE, the process for the window manager is "cinnamon".
– TSJNachos117
10 hours ago
add a comment |
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Actually what "uses X11 to provide the tools for drawing more complex things" (eg: menu bars, buttons, combo boxes) is a toolkit like Tk, GTK, and Qt. As @TSJNachos117 said, a window manager decorates X11 windows with borders and titles to allow easier resizing and positioning.
– Diogo Kollross
Apr 12 at 11:57
4
TIL that solitaire apps is a bare essential of a GUI-based operating system.
– pipe
Apr 12 at 13:01